Teenage mental wellbeing

Hello, and welcome.

I'm Dr. Zoe Williams, your host for this event.

This is the fourth event from the Bupa Inside Health Series, and today we're going to be talking about mental health.

And in this segment specifically about teen mental health, I'm joined by two excellent guests.

So we have Glenys Jackson, who is the clinical lead for mental health at Bupa, who's going to be sharing with us her knowledge and expertise.

And I'm also joined by Dr. Alex George, who is an A&E and TV doctor, and also the youth ambassador for mental health at number 10 Downing Street.

So Alex, I want to come to you first.

You've now become the Youth Mental Health ambassador, which is, it's a mouthful, but it's amazing.

And I want to say congratulations, because you created this position for yourself by campaigning because you recognised that there was a need for huge improvements to be made in support for young people when it comes to mental health.

And it kind of starts with your own personal experience.

Is it okay to ask you about that?

Yeah, sure.

First, thank you very much for supporting me I know you have on social media as well throughout the campaigning and stuff that I've done.

I mean, I think my first interest in mental health actually started at university.

I remember, in my fourth year, having gone to med school really enjoying it kind of coming off the rails a little bit, and I was stopping enjoying my studies and didn't sleep well, or see my friends, I wasn't eating very well, I just kind of felt quite lost, I look back and go Well, actually, I was depressed at the time, a bit of mild depression.

But I was really worried about speaking to anyone thought if I talk to med school, they'll say, oh, you can't be a doctor, you know, we'll we hold you back a year or whatever.

I'm not saying that's true, but at least it's the stigma that I thought that I'd experienced.

And so I didn't say anything until things got quite a bit worse.

Eventually, I did what all well, all struggling children should do.

I think initially speak to your parents and talk to someone and I rung my mum, and she gave me some great advice.

She's not medical at all that said, look, Alex, you're not really doing anything at the moment that's conducive with happiness, not really looking after yourself in that way.

So it's not surprising that you're struggling.

And so we kind of worked together, I planned to get up at the same time, go to bed at the same time, start exercising a little bit again.

So I talked to my friends planning things, and I kind of like made the lifestyle changes that you would with with mild depression.

But what was interesting is that at that age, as someone that was nearly graduating as a doctor, I had no idea really about how to look after myself, or how important self care actually is As a doctor as a soon to be Doctor?

Exactly and the second obviously shocking point was the fact that I genuinely thought that I went to the med school that they might penalise me for that.

So those are the two big things I learned at that point.

and when I started working in a&e in London, what surprised me the most was not the fact we see a lot of car crashes and whatever.

It's how much mental health that we I mean as a GP you, I'm sure you can back that up, we see so much of it.

and so many people that I see, I think we actually have we given the society, this person the tools to handle what they're going through, have we really prepared this person?

Do they know what to do?

Or where to go?

A lot of the time, I think, no is the answer.

And then, over the last few years, obviously pandemics been very hard and everyone I had my own personal experience, I lost my brother just over a year ago, I know that you were very kind and reached out to me at the time, you know, to suicide, which had been very hard, especially at the time where I was advocating a mental health pandemic as a big worry of mine and I know many of us in medical community are worried about that.

And it's really tough.

And so off the back of that as I need to do something, I need to use my platform to try and help and that's where I started campaigning, really for, for focus and attention to be put into supporting young people, both in terms of what to do when you're struggling with illness, but also how to look at mental health as a whole.

And that campaign led to the role that I'm in.

And, I mean, I think suicide and suicidality, which is linked to suicide, which is people who, who feel suicidal, it's much more common, I think, than people might think and I think, you know, most people, at some point in their lives will be touched either personally, or through a loved one, by suicidality.

I lost a friend to suicide and I think what would be really useful is what advice would you give to parents?

If they have a child or a teenager who seems to be struggling with their mental health?

How can they approach it?

How can they start that conversation?

Also, what are the signs to look out for?

I think you're right.

I mean, you will know that I think suicidality has been massively on the rise, you know, the thoughts and you know, even just imagining or thinking about suicide, and I was actually speaking to a support hub only the other day and they were saying how they've seen such a sharp rise in that.

So almost a sense that people are struggling, struggling more.

Now, during this pandemic, you know, we are seeing new emerging clinical levels of clinical anxiety or depression.

But for those who already have it, often it's getting, it's getting worse and that's really hard for like parents and families and people around this person seeing them struggling so much and I know it must be one of the things you're asked a lot as a GP, like, what do I do?

How do I how do I support that?

And it's really difficult, and I genuinely and you're asking you this question, I think I'm really intrigued to see what you say, because it is something I've struggled with over the past couple of years is finding the right words, in a world where there are real lack of tools and resources to support families, and it does perhaps often land with you as the GP, it's something I found really difficult.

Well, I think as a parent or family member, then the first thing is to realise it's not your job to fix that person, I think there's a friend or colleague, sometimes people think, you know, my friend is struggling, I need to fix them, actually, your role as a friend is to be a friend, to sit there to listen to support.

So I think as a parent, most powerful thing you can do is listen, I think often and again, this is from speaking to parents that have gone through the whole process that come out the other side, and, you know, also to kind of experts in this area and it's if you try and kind of fix that person, it can actually make them more closed up.

It has the opposing effect rather than going right, let's talk What are you thinking, what are you feeling, not jumping and say, No, don't worry about you know, your weight to look beautiful, and all this kind of stuff that that can actually make things worse.

So by just engaging and showing that you're listening supporting ear, then that's very helpful and then they're really I think it's signposting and saying like, where do we go now to get that, you know, you as this person, you know, my son, my daughter to get the support that you need.

And as you say, quite rightly, you know, big part of the focus of the role that I'm in is to increase love support, because I think things like waiting list for cameras and stuff is far too long.

I mean, in parts of the country, it's 260 days, some some, you know, and some in some places up to two years, which is very difficult.

But what is important, I guess, to focus on is that there is actually support out there are different levels.

And, yes, okay, we might want to see cams, waiting times come down.

But you know, a lot of charities and organisations provide amazing health support.

And actually, NHS has introduced a lot of new support that didn't exist a few years ago.

And there's now 70, new eating disorder services and hubs that didn't exist, you know, a year or so or two years ago, during the pandemic.

So very important to kind of learn where you can signpost to, but I think as a parent, that primary thing for you is to be that support sense of support, listening, keeping that conversation trying to prevent that situation where people close up, because that's when I guess it's quite dangerous, isn't it?

I think, I guess, as parents as doctors, there's that automatic, but we've kind of got used to fixing things, haven't we, and giving advice and saying, This is what you should do.

And this is what you should do.

And I think sometimes, with mental health, particularly with young people, you have to stop yourself.

And if you're giving statements, that's not great.

If you're asking questions, then that's likely to be more helpful, isn't it?

Whereas there is that temptation often to try and fix it?

Yeah, but a lot of is asking them.

What do you think that would help?

What would you like to do?

Who would you like to talk to and it's like, you know, I'm big fan of this hub of hope is quite a new kind of service.

But it basically they've collected all the support that's out there, NHS charity and otherwise into a search engine, but the post could have tells you all the support that's available.

I really like that because it's almost like a catalogue of what is available out there.

And what do you want access to some kids might want us tech services, other ones want to see therapists face to face.

I think the old adage like like this march you down to the doctor or march you to therapists might not be the way that helps that that person and I guess, as friends, family, you know, parents, if you want to help I think a lot of it is the listening but also trying to encourage things that are helpful for mental health.

So it's like reconnecting with nature.

Is it encouraging daily positive wellbeing habits of the family that you all do together?

Is it creating a way that you can communicate, and the way you're comfortable?

And I really like the traffic light idea.

And I think all families should do this.

And, you know, they all sit around the table and we're like we are now and you know, the traffic light.

You got amber, green and red and go around.

Now, I might say Right, I'm green today.

It's been great.

Why has it has been great.

Well, I'd be able to exercise I think my friends and I enjoyed work today or school, whatever.

You might go.

I'm Amber today, you know, this is why Didn't sleep well.

.

.

bit stressed this thing's coming up, and a bit sad about something And then you might say I'm red, but why do you feel red and it's amazing cuz it breaks down barriers and families and, you know, I guess traditional idea of like, you know, father, children, some of that kind of.

.

It enables that conversation happened, doesn't it?

Yeah.

And it creates a feel.

Like and actually this is this has been used in intensive care departments.

A lot of the intensive care actually, I think was St.

Thomas's ITU that they were using it in the mornings to handover to identify nurses that were fatigued and struggling.

And I was like, that's such a great idea and we should like to do it.

So there's ways you can kind of integrate that into the family.

I think What I love about that is it gets you away from that question.

Are you okay?

Which we always have that automatic response?

Yes.

Whether we are or not where it's actually you're asking somebody, are you red amber or green?

You know, Change the word say, how's the weather?

You know, today is sunny.

I feel, you know, sunny today.

Oh, no, it's rainy or a bit cloudy or overcast a little bit, sometimes just moving away to words that are less emotive, you know, are you feeling really depressed today is quite heavy.

If you're feeling that way, it's very hot as it requires energy.

Because, you know, the next thing is like, why and all this kind of stuff?

You just wanted to say, It also helps people to reflect as well, isn't it?

Actually where they're at at that moment?

When they are thinking about the traffic, lights, sequencing?

It just put them in a different place that they're not under that same pressure.

They've got a tool to use It removes your most of that direct kind of judgement of where you actually are in that space.

But I think yeah, there's, I think that the question that's common is like, how would you?

What do you do if you think the child's struggling is very common, as well, but the same with colleagues at work?

And again, I will say, first thing is trust your gut.

So if you think someone struggling trust that instinct, because often you're right, and obviously, you know, you'd be able to talk more about but at least from what I've seen, it's people's behaviours, you can often recognise changing, so not sleeping very well, they don't want to come out of the room, or they don't want to play or they've stopped wanting to go to sports classes or whatever.

Go with your gut on that.

I think approach in a way, that's a sensible time and place doing it late at night, we've got homework on and they get up early, or ask at the Tesco queue, probably not a smart thing to do, do it an environment that you've that you think this person will be most comfortable in at a time that they're going to be most open.

And I think then being quite direct isn't I think so you can skirt around the issue.

You know, I feel that you have you, You seem a bit different.

I'm worried that you not yourself.

How are you doing?

Very key that you did there, you didn't say you are behaving different you are sad, you said I feel as though so that's You just open that door.

And I think if that person wants to speak at that time, they will, if they don't speak so I'm always here.

And I think that's right, I think if you if your gut is telling you something's not right, it's better to open up that conversation, even if you're wrong, and they're actually fine, then to sit back and wait and let things get worse until you're certain that something's wrong.

And actually, whilst we're talking about that, I'd love for us to put a myth to bed right now, which is bringing up the topic of suicide, if you are worried about somebody you care about, and you think that they may be suicidal, or having those types of thoughts.

By bringing up and saying the word suicide, you are not going to make somebody more likely to do it.

I think people sometimes have that fear and actually, the evidence says you're not going to increase their risk.

In fact, the opposite is true.

Yeah, you've given them the opportunity.

A lot of times, it sounds very hard to say, you know, you have different ways of saying but you want to say, you know, have you had any dark thoughts?

Are you thinking about harming yourself?

Or do you feel unsafe?

There's lots of ways that people might say it, but I think vocalising is, is really important, because actually sometimes if you skirt around and don't ask that question, you might miss an opportunity, actually, to give them the chance to say, Alex, what I want to ask you about now is the incredible work you're doing at number 10 Downing Street, how is that going?

What changes are going to happen?

But also in the future what are your aspirations.

What would you like to see change?

Because yeah, as a GP, I know that the current service availability and the support, especially for young people, is is just not good enough?

Yeah, I think it's not I think most people across the sector would agree it's not what we want it to be I think everyone quite universally on that agreement.

You know, my my, what I wanted to do with this role was be in the middle I guess of being a voice film people and using my platform to amplify you know, what they want basically and take that to a level that we can you know, people can who can make decisions can hear that and also to work with experts and go Well what do you what do you think is the answer, the solutions How can I kind of help and so the last kind of six, seven months I've worked on campaigns that we made wellbeing videos that went across all to all the schools in the country that they can learn a bit about sleep, bit about exercise or you know, nature, social media Starting a little bit education a show and actually teaching around mental health doesn't have to be boring, it can be interesting, it can be really beneficial thing.

You know, we've targeted a few things at anti bullying campaigns you know, we know that at any one time 50% of kids at school are being bullied and it's one into any one time we know the issue is growing and children are bullied at home you know we're not we your social media wasn't an issue go home you like bullied at school but you get away from it now.

People that bully at school the people bullying online Different for adults, tend to be different people but Day and night Day and night it doesn't stop and it's a huge issue our mental it's a huge problem with mental health.

So I focused on those So really I've tried to do as target areas, I think that we can can help and in terms of kind of funding, and the model at the moment got the child adolescent mental health services CAMS, which is there to support young people but of course its own design for a small percentage.

Those who are really, really struggling Exactly.

You know, I really wanted to see the rollout of this mental health support teams speeding up teams of psychologists and support workers to essentially provide support at schools when they need it.

So if a teacher identifies a child that struggling, you've actually got someone that can be there and see them and intervene early.

But really, you know, of course, honestly, funding into CAMs is there's a lot of work to be done, I think, to kind of bring that service and bring the waiting time down and bring it up to where you want it to be.

But I do think we need to, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I think we do need to move towards early intervention, as much as possible.

CAMs is designed for a couple of percent.

You know, that model doesn't work for everyone.

We know it doesn't work.

And so early intervention is important.

And that's why I'm really, really want the government to fund early support hubs having a place in each community, which is very important, not a clinical space that young people can go, they can feel comfortable with remove barriers around, you know, them being comfortable to talk to people, you have the youth centred approach and have access to services that work alongside CAMs, but it very much in a way of basically looking at the 360 degree view degree view of this child and saying, What can we do to support them to prevent them ended up in situation they need out from CAMs?

So that's been a speedy as I can put it into those kind of focuses.

And I think over the next few years, that the focus for me is around this early intervention, you know, that we need to shift towards that model.

But I'd love to hear your thoughts on that I could be wrong.

No, I think you're very right, it's really important to have that hub and spoke really where, that young person is at the centre, and that they're able to go to centres, you know, you know, youth club type, environments that feels that feels safe.

We established in very long time ago, streetwise, 2000.

All in 1999, actually, and what it enabled was people, young people to just go and engage and have those conversations that are quite tricky.

You know, the talk about suicide, the talk about I don't feel well, but it gave that sort of beanbags sort of relaxed atmosphere for that young person.

And it made it a normal thing to do to talk about how you're feeling from a mental health point of view, as well as a physical, A lot of the you know, I suppose I've been going around visiting hubs, because there's a lot of examples around the country, the ones that don't really really great.

What we want to do, we're not recreating the wheel here, we want to lift and national and have a standardised level, which I think you can some areas got amazing hubs and others, nothing.

Find out what works and then make sure everybody has access.

Actually it's a very, it's compared to the cost of CAMs very cheap way as economically, the numbers stack up as well.

But it's, you know, speaking to young people, you know, one of the biggest barriers that I hear from young people is the fear of the kind of white coat the going into this clinical space.

As an adult, it's scared off you're struggling the mental health to go and see your GP I am on Sertraline for anxiety and I'm having therapy and stuff.

I was like, you know, pick up the phone to the GP and speaking what's it like for a 12 year old to kind of pick up the courage to speak to a grown up, just speak to another grown up and then go to a clinic eight months, nine months down the line be told you're not sick enough to be there?

I mean, it's just.

.

.

and that's the reality of what's happened.

The reality is, as you've outlined, most are not going to do that, especially if they're struggling with their mental health, which adds additional barriers, you know, due to their motivation and makes it even more of a mountain to climb, to ask for that help.

So, absolutely, I think as you've said, the early intervention and having professionals like teachers who see these young people and know them well, being able to identify some problems before it really spirals.

Alex, thanks so much, honestly, for everything that you're doing.

And I'm so glad that there is somebody like you in number 10 Downing Street, you know, campaigning for those who perhaps don't have a voice, so you're, you know, amplifying their voices and keep supporting, I'm sure, Glenys is would agree.

It's amazing.

It is amazing.

Absolutely.

Fabulous work, Alex, Thank you.

So Glennis coming to you with your expertise, you've been working in mental health now for many, many years, you've had a lot of practice, when it comes to having that conversation with somebody about how they're doing, and how, how, what, what is a good way to approach that?

I think it's really, you know, you don't always know the person that you're speaking to, obviously, as a parent, you know, your team best.

So it's about how you manufacture that communication with them.

It's about sitting on your parent hands rarely, and which is very hard to do.

My parents, myself, my eldest daughter really did struggle with her own anxiety.

And it was about sitting on my hands because I would have been instructional, I would have gone into that mode of Annie to help like you're saying before Alex, and Dr. Zoe, you were saying, weren't you that, you know, you will go into that, do this, do that and the automatic of course and you need to sit on those parenting, those professional hands.

So that control shifts onto that young person so that they can then feel that actually I'm being listened to here, there's some warmth here that they may not be feeling at that time.

So being aware of you control when you are communicating, think about what is the best way of communicating with that young person, they may prefer not to have a face to face, like you were saying before use technology use text, obviously, you got to be very careful because as we all know, we can receive a text and think what knows that person you know, talking about, it's how we interpret it, isn't it.

So think about the technology, think about the way that you can communicate.

You know, lots of parents that ring into Bupa often we talk about go for a walk you were talking before about, you know, doing those things that are natural, the mindfulness element of being in the here and now, go for a walk, have that conversation that isn't necessarily face to face, but bring in all the connections.

So you are making that connection with that young person, that connectivity feels warm to them, it feels real, they're then going to Dr.op those barriers down a little bit, and be able to have that open conversation.

I mean, there's so this is quite intense, isn't it, if there's something like a mental health problem in the air between a parent and a child, this can feel so even walking and being side by side and I have an eye contact, I was once talking to a family as well.

And they spoke, they always had their more difficult conversations in the car.

Because there's a little bit of music in the background, you're Driving, there's something else going on, you're not you know, you can have those little glances in the mirror there in the back.

But it's a bit less intense.

It feels like a slightly safer, easier environment.

You were saying about tech.

But I mean voice note as well, I've heard young people saying that speak to speak to parents put stuff on, they're gonna have difficult talk, they'll just do it over Voice Note.

You can take your time to say what you want to say you're uninterrupted and the person can listen to it.

And you have the time I guess a parent not related to sitting on the hands not to rush.

And you could be in that safe space can't you as as the young person, if you're in your own room, or you are out walking and you're messaging, you know, you can be there taking that control.

And that's so powerful, isn't it?

And Glenys, of course, in the real world, often the case that children, young people, they're not going to stick their hand up and let you know, there's a problem.

So what signs or symptoms can parents look out for?

It's like Alex was saying before, it's changes in behaviour, changes in what you have been used to seeing.

And those changes could be anything around routine.

And it could be where the young person is becoming withdrawn.

They're isolating themselves.

Irritability is a huge one.

Because, you know, lots of parents say, I don't know why they're responding in this way, you know, the irritable, that talking to me rather rudely, or That can be tricky, because that's a normal teenager as well.

It is, And you've got to look at that balance you've got to look at, let's not take it out of context.

But it's a real good point Zoe because it's about when there's a consistent change to the variable, that is normal teenage behaviour.

And it's when those darker moments come in, where they are self isolating, they are taking themselves away a lot more, those snappy, argumentative times, yes, they're natural.

But it's when does that mood change, when somebody is obviously feeling in a very difficult place in a different place to where they'd normally be.

So you need to be very aware of what's going on, you need to look at what you're observing, don't make assumptions, in terms of what you're seeing.

And be able to, if you can, I mean, I'm a parent myself.

So remaining calm is, is quite difficult.

Because you you'd like we've said before, your immediate response would be to get in there and help.

But like, we say, you've got to sit on your parenting in hands.

You've got to enable your teenager to be able to open up to you and have that conversation around you know, what it's like for them, what does it feel like for them, we've talked about that traffic, like sequence use techniques that aren't really focusing on them as individuals, but it's enabling them to feel more confident in being able to talk to you.

Talk about what's happening, talk about how they feel physically, because sometimes young people teenagers can say, you know, they can eat loads of food can't they or they can actually go off their food, appetite, sleep, all those sorts of changes that you notice you've you've got to sit down and have that opportunity to explore that further and like we said, again, use different techniques, use different communication styles, you know your child best you know that teenager well, what works for them and expand on that.

Go for that walk in the you know, you know, in the woods, feel that mindfulness air and living in that moment, so that you can actually start that conversation with them about what's going on in their thought process in and how they're feeling and how that actually impacts on them.

Okay, I guess as a parent, you're kind of an expert in your child, aren't you?

So you're gut, but also you know how to comfort them, perhaps make them feel safe but also recognising that it's your child who is the expert in whatever this mental health thing is that's going on for them and really, therefore, doing the best you can to lightly say, sit on your hands and let them talk about it.

Ask them lots of questions, but don't try.

Well, as tempting as it is, don't try and go in and fix it.

It's changing that conversation structure, isn't it that we're also used to?

And it's creatively thinking right, how is my approach going to be received, preempt, in some ways how you think they're going to react, and it's probably going to be totally the opposite.

But it's about being aware, being consistent, being kind, Maybe not responding straightaway because your reflex automatic reaction might not be the best one, but sort of take a little bit time to think about it and as you say, think well, how will this proceed?

You know, when I was a teenager?

How would I have received that?

It's very, very hard, isn't it, but you yourself, as the parent has to use that traffic light sequence in terms of using red, so that you can not get angry?

but actually put a stop to where you're talking.

Slow it down.

Just give that thinking time.

Use the exclamation mark to say, Okay, I need to change direction here but I've got to have some thinking time usually, you know, it's, it's okay to it's so easy to go away and you know, run away with the conversation but you've really like you're saying, you've really got to try and slow it down, stop, and give yourself some thinking time in order to be able then to structure what you want to say next.

And what would you say what are the main causes of problems when it comes to mental health in teens?

Because we're seeing this huge increase in issues?

I think, I mean, if we knew what the causes were it'd be great wouldn't it.

Because there are so so many reasons and triggers why our children and young people really struggle with their mental health.

You look at young people being in those stressful situations through the pandemic, they become isolated, they're on the media more, they're using media more as their mode of conversation and communication, which they would do anyway but they're not having that break from it.

So social media is really quite a powerful tool in very many positive ways but also in very many negative ways.

And we've had many conversations with parents, whereby the use of social media has had such a negative effect, talking before about bullying, cyber bullying, and, you know, parents don't know what to do with it, because they don't have the control.

However, talking through it and saying, Well, you know, let's have a family plan about the use of social media, let's look at what that actually means for us as a family and for you as that individual teen.

Because teenagers will be on there all day wouldn't they?

All day and all night long.

We don't know what's going on in those conversations.

I think I think parents use social media in a different way to young people as well.

So they don't fully they're not fully able to grasp I guess the.

.

.

just how significant that can be or how detrimental that can be to one's mental health.

Do you think it's important that do you think children should be educated?

Should this be part of mainstream education that children are, I guess, warned of the dangers of social media and I guess, learnt the skill of how to use social media so that it doesn't impact you negatively and can even perhaps be a positive influence?

Without a doubt, Zoe, I mean, it should be on the curriculum.

Shouldn't it really shouldn't be on the school.

.

.

Do you agree with that?

I can feel it.

I think it's so important, isn't it?

It should really be on the curriculum, you know, the high pressures that young people are under and face, you know, the code of use the safe use those family media plans?

You know, it's all about where did they learn this?

And at the moment, it's, you know, it's very few and far between structures that are there to enable a family to know what to do.

So let's get in at that first port of call reception, nursery, reception.

Going through from year six transition into high school, you're then prepared.

If you've learned from a very young age, what is cyber bullying?

How do I manage those that information coming through what is safe to look out what isn't safe to look at?

Yes, we can all talk to our young people and our children about, you know what is safe, but normally, as a parent, they'll not listen to you to the same degree as it being managed within their peer group at school.

And if it's delivered through the education channel, they'll see it and accept it in a very different way.

You wouldn't fly a plane without lessons would you?

We're all flying around in these planes?

I mean, I came off Love Island and I never really use social media particularly million or whatever.

And having to like kind of learn, I went through that whole process of like, oh, my gosh, and then you get affected by this, and you look at this stuff.

And you, I learned the hard way on how, and I'm in my 20s, how is a child that's coming through and of course, we know the limit the age limit that kids should be on social media, but let's be honest, that 10, 11 years old, they're on social media.

So we should be teaching at school, about how to use it.

If we look at the next I'd love to, you know, look into the future and see but I'd imagine in 50 years time, almost all of our jobs will be.

.

.

I mean, look at medicine, for example.

You know, we've got so many more doctors are on social media but also providing healthcare over.

.

.

There's still social media platforms, whatever app you want to call it.

So you know, we have to teach these kids not just about the dangers but how to use it effectively, because it will be a lot of your jobs in the future.

I once learned a skill from a psychologist, we were having a similar conversation to this.

And she said is that this is just one little nugget that I've always found so helpful is that we tend to if we're feeling a bit low, and we're not in a great place, we tend to scroll and look at other people's content.

Whereas if we're feeling quite good, that's when we tend to post.

So even I was thinking that now if I'm scrolling a lot, it's like, I probably don't need to be on here.

This is not good for my mental health but if I'm actively posting then it's a positive thing.

And that's just one tiny little skill that we should be teaching all of these skills to young people.

Look at how the mind works, you know, you'll know better than I do, about the development of the brain and how vulnerable it is for children and younger people.

And yet they're absorbing all that information, aren't they?

So it's so important to actually be able to educate, so that that vulnerability reduces.

Was reading the day and they're doing this study looking into how like if I say something that's hurtful to someone or I write it and they read it, it sinks much deeper into their brain if it's read.

So like say if you're on Twitter, so when something about your body, you're like, how you look, when you read it, it sinks so much further into your subconscious than if it was said face to face and you can contextualise it or whatever you're just reading this thing.

And you're like, it's almost like when you get a text and you interpret it you are interpreting that in the most harmful way Actually make someone make a very light comment about you and saying anyone should be, but they might but you will take that to the depths in your mind.

It's also if you have 100 comments on your posts and 99 are positive and one is negative, we focus on the negative and that doesn't happen in the real world, you know, that just that scenario never arises.

I want to talk a bit about change, because change is difficult for all of us but for children and young people understanding and coping with change is can be particularly difficult.

What advice can you give around that?

I think it's really important.

Obviously, we know, like you say, change is inevitable.

It's in everyday life, you know, it's an ongoing process and I think first of all, you know, if you're looking at the younger child before they get to that teenage space, we've got to have those conversations with our younger children around change, that change happens and changes, okay.

You know, sometimes we'll make a mistake, and we have to change things, we have to change what we're doing and that's all right.

We need to start so very, very young, in getting that across, that change will happen and sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad.

But managing that change is what we want to enable our young people, our teenagers to get to a point where they're resilient, You know, perhaps using those four C's, where as a family within your family life, whatever formation that may be that you have a curriculum of conversation, that you're able to have those special times where you could use a traffic light sequence in terms of how somebody is feeling about a certain change, or you can have those conversations whereby you're all out for a walk on the weekend and there's a change pending.

Have that exploratory, of, you know, opportunity to explore what that makes people feel like what does that teenager in your family feel like?

How are they responding to that, to show that you're caring to show that you are communicating with them put in on their terms.

So it's about, you know, making sure that what you are saying mean something to them, and it's not your control over that you're getting their opinion, and then obviously exploring and looking at the tips and techniques for managing conflict, because nobody really likes conflict.

You know, young teenagers perhaps will look at it in a different way and view it in a different way that they revel within conflict, but not when it's associated to change that directly impacts them.

And again, it's about building up that resilience to be able to cope.

So the four C's then in relation to change our Curriculum of family life, Caring, Communication, Conflict.

Brilliant and Glenys finally what what help and support is available through Bupa?

Okay, through Bupa, we have the Family Mental Health Line, which is a remote service for parents, grandparents, carers to call in and have a conversation about their child or young person.

That may be struggling they've may be identified some of those changes those behavioural changes.

The level observed different traits in their children, especially through the pandemic as well.

Then looking and seeking to have that conversation where they can get tips, advice and guidance from the trained children and adolescent mental health nurses.

Brilliant.

Well, we've run out of time, but thank you so much, Alex.

Thank you Glenys and I hope that you found something in there really useful.

If you want more advice on this topic, please do go to the Mental Health Hub.

Thank you.