[Podcast] Plant-based diets and sustainable eating

Michelle Harrison 

Hello and welcome to a brand-new episode of the Bupa Healthy Me Podcast. 

My name is Michelle Harrison. I'm one of the lead editors here on Bupa's health content team and I have a degree in nutritional science from the University of Nottingham. So I'll be your host for today's episode. And today I'm joined by two dietitians from the Bupa Cromwell Hospital, Lizzie Brown, and Rebecca McBride, and we're going to be talking to you about all things plant-based diets. 

Girls, thank you both so much for joining us today. Would you like to start by telling us a bit about yourselves? 

Lizzie Brown 

So I'm Lizzie. And as you've mentioned, I'm a dietitian at Bupa Cromwell. And currently at Bupa Cromwell, I specialise in the intensive care unit and I see a lot of the radiotherapy outpatients. Originally, I'm from New Zealand where I trained at the University of Otago on the South Island. I moved to London two and a half years ago. And I've worked for a number of NHS trusts there before coming to Bupa. 

In my spare time, I enjoy the outdoors. I love hiking and also enjoy yoga and tennis. 

Rebecca McBride 

I'm Rebecca. I also work as a dietitian at the Bupa Cromwell Hospital. I specialise in a few different areas so specialising in cardiology, looking after people's hearts, renal, so looking after people's kidneys and also respiratory, so looking after people who have problems with their lungs. 

I came to Bupa from the NHS, I've worked in a few different NHS trusts and I'm from Scotland and studied in Aberdeen and like Lizzy, I like to be outdoors. I like to hike, I like to run and go camping. 

Michelle Harrison 

Well, it's lovely to meet you both and to have you on the podcast today. So today we're going to be talking about plant-based diets, which have really grown in popularity in recent years. So you might have heard of things like meat free Monday, where you have one day a week where you don't eat meat, or maybe Veganuary where lots of people try following a vegan diet for the month of January. Or maybe you've just seen a range of plant-based meals in your local supermarket that's popped up now. So, there's lots of different ways that you can choose to eat a more plant-based diet. 

And there are many, many different reasons why you might choose to do so as well. So, it's a really big topic and there's loads to cover, and I'm sure we could spend hours talking about it. But today we're mainly going to focus on it from a health and nutrition perspective. So we'll look at what it means to eat a more plant-based diet and some of the reasons why you might choose to do so. Then we'll explain which nutrients you need to be more aware of to ensure you're getting everything your body needs. If you do eat a more plant-based diet, we'll be answering some questions that have been sent in from our colleagues across Bupa.  

We've got some really interesting questions coming in on some topics such as sustainable eating and the environmental impact of eating a plant-based diet. 

But just before we get started, it's important to note that we're going to be focusing on the nutritional requirements of adults today. So if you're pregnant or maybe you're looking for nutritional information for children, then speak to a doctor or a dietitian for more advice on that. OK, let's jump straight in then. 

So I guess First things first. What is a plant-based Diet? Can one of you guys kind of explain what we mean by that? 

Rebecca McBride 

Eating a plant-based diet just means eating a diet that focuses on whole foods such as fruit, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, legumes, and seeds, and often limits or completely excludes any animal products and plant-based is like an umbrella term, so it covers a lot of different diets. 

So, as I said, there's lots of different ways that people choose to cut down on animal products and eat more plants. So, I think it's a good idea if we just start by going through some of the terminology, some of the different phrases. 

Michelle Harrison 

Yeah, definitely. 

Rebecca McBride 

So, the first one, the kind of old school term is vegetarian, so vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat meat, chicken, or fish. As well as that, they don't include insects, gelatin, or animal rennet, stalk, or fat from animals. A vegetarian diet can include fruit and vegetables, grains, pulses, nuts and seeds and it also contains eggs, dairy products, and honey. 

Lizzie Brown 

And then if you take it that step further, I suppose, and as you mentioned, veganism now is becoming quite a popular diet to follow. And so if a vegan diet would exclude the products mentioned in the vegetarian diet, but in addition to that, also your dairy, your eggs and your honey would be excluded. 

I think also it's important to note you might think of a plant-based diet as just being vegetarian or vegan, but it may not be that you only have plants. It might be that you're focusing more on plants and you are reducing your animal products. 

So you're having proportionally more foods from your plant sources, but you may also choose to include some more products, whether it's something like a piscatorial, whether still having seafood and fish. Or you may come across the term flexitarian where people mostly eat vegetarian but may occasionally have meat or chicken if they're going out, for example. 

Michelle Harrison 

Yeah, so there's loads of different ways you can do it. And there's lots of different reasons, isn't there, why people might choose to follow a more plant-based diet. So can we maybe touch on that a little bit as well? 

Rebecca McBride 

Yes. So some of the different reasons can include ethical reasons and animal welfare. It can include environmental reasons and sustainability, which is something that's been more focused on in the media at the moment. It can also be for cultural or religious beliefs and another main motivator for choosing more plant-based diet is for health reasons. So because there is quite a lot of reasons for people to choose a more plant-based diet, there's a lot to discuss around the topic but today we're going to focus mainly on the health side and in adults only because for me and Lizzy as dietitians that's our specialty area. 

Michelle Harrison 

So if you're thinking about it from a health point of view, then what might be some of the health benefits of choosing to eat a more plant-based diet? 

Rebecca McBride 

So I think some of the main benefits include a reduced saturated fat intake. So there are high levels of saturated fat in red meat and full fat dairy products like cheese for example. So reducing these automatically cuts your saturated fat intake. You're also having more fruit and vegetables and pulses and grains, which increases your fibre intake. 

Another benefit is an increase in vitamins and minerals, again because usually you're increasing your fruit and vegetable intake so well-balanced plant-based diets that are low in saturated fat, along with exercise can help you manage your weight and it may reduce your risk of type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and some cancers. So really big benefits there. 

It is important, however, to be aware that just because you're cutting down on your animal products, it doesn't automatically mean that you’re healthier. 

So there are lots of plant-based foods that aren't very healthy. So it's important to plan your meals in advance and do a bit of research into plant-based diets to make sure that you're getting all the nutrients that your body needs. 

Michelle Harrison 

What things do you need to consider then from a nutrition point of view? So obviously like you say, you're eating more pulses, you're eating more fibre, more vitamins, and minerals. So. But then what things might you need to be a little bit more mindful of making sure you don't miss out on? 

Lizzie Brown 

So most nutrients are abundantly available on a plant-based diet. 

And if you are avoiding or minimising your consumption of animal dry foods as you see, there are a few things that you may need to be just more aware of, and so one of the big ones I think that's often brought up is your protein intake. And I think it's a common misconception that you can't get enough protein on a plant-based diet. 

Actual fact if you are planning your meals ahead and, you know making good decisions. Then you can easily get enough protein. So if we look at protein and why it's so important, it's essential for growth and repair of the body and maintenance of good health. And it's the main component of our muscles, our skin, our hair, our internal organs. 

So it's something that we really need and it's also a main component for our immune system. So we require protein to help make antibodies that help us to fight infections. 

And so if we think of protein, it's made-up of amino acids. And nine of these are essential. So we have to eat them from food and different foods contain different amounts and combinations of amino acids and. And so with some of your animal sources, they do contain the full range of essential amino acids. And this doesn't mean that if you remove animal products that you can't get them. 

It just means with your plant-based sources you just need to be aware to get the full range you need to make sure you're combining things like pulses and cereals together. This doesn't have to happen at every meal, but just to balance across the day. Make sure that you are getting all the protein that you need. 

So plant foods can be a great source of protein and a real benefit in helping to reduce your animal proteins in the diet, whether you're an omnivore or vegetarian or a vegan. So some plant based sauces, for example, would be things like your quinoa, which does contain all 22 amino acids. Also your pulses. So your lentils, chickpeas, beans, your soy ones like tofu or tempeh and you will shoot your nuts and seeds, oats. And if you are choosing plant-based milk alternatives as well, that's another protein source. 

Michelle Harrison 

What about in terms of other micronutrients? What might you need to think about? 

Rebecca McBride 

So another thing to think about is vitamin B12. Vitamin B12 is really, really important. If you're following a plant-based diet to consider because it is made by microorganisms, and it isn't produced by plants. So if you are a vegetarian, then sources of vitamin B12 can include milk and cheese, yoghurt, and eggs. However, if you are following a completely plant-based diet then sources of vitamin B12 can include fortified products, so fortified breakfast cereals and fortified non-Dairy Milk. 

Other sources of vitamin B12 can include nutritional use products, but it's really, really important to check the labels on these food products to check the the levels of vitamin B12. So it's important because it helps the body's nerves and blood cells to to stay healthy and it helps to make DNA which is the genetic material that's in all cells. It also helps to prevent a certain type of anaemia called Megaloblastic anaemia, which can make people very tired and weak. 

So if you are following a completely plant-based diet then fortified foods and supplements are the only proven reliable source of vitamin B12. Therefore, supplementation is recommended. 

Michelle Harrison 

OK, great. That's really, really interesting. So we need to think about B12 and that's probably one of the most important ones, like you say to think about if you're on a plant-based diet. Are there any other vitamins or minerals or micronutrients that we might need to be more mindful of on a plant-based diet? 

Lizzie Brown 

Yeah. So I think Iron is another one that you need to be aware of. So we need iron in terms of making our red blood cells and carrying oxygen around the body. It also supports our muscle metabolism in healthy connective tissue. It's really important during growth and for our neurological development and plant-based sources of iron would include things like your fortified breakfast cereals, your beans, lentils, chickpeas, your soy sauces like tofu and things like your spinach. 

I think it's important to be aware that your iron found in your plant foods isn't as easily absorbed as it is from some of your meat products, so it's useful to note with that, to help increase absorption of iron, it's recommended that you have something that's a good source of vitamin C so for example citrus fruits or kiwi fruits or bell peppers can help you absorb those plant-based sources of iron better. 

Michelle Harrison 

Right. OK. That's really interesting. So that's why people were always recommended traditionally to have meat as a good source of iron. It's down to the type of iron that's in meat versus the type of iron that's in plant sources. Yeah. OK, great. And just as a little side note then, I'm just wondering for females obviously like, around times of menstruation, they tend to lose a lot more iron through blood. So what if you were following a plant-based diet as a female? Would you need to be even more mindful of your iron around those times? 

Lizzie Brown 

Yeah, I think it is important to be aware if you are a menstruating female that you do have higher iron requirement. 

And by all means going for your plant-based sources. But being where if you are feeling very tired or you're worried that you may becoming anaemic and talking to your doctor and it may be that you benefit from being on an iron supplement to help you with that. 

Michelle Harrison 

Definitely that makes sense. So we've covered off and protein and vitamin B12 and iron, what else might we need to think about? 

Rebecca McBride 

Another thing to think about is your Omega threes. Traditionally, Omega-3s are thought to come from purely fish, and especially oily fish. So Omega-3 is a family of fats that are really really important for our health. Omega-3 is made-up of two different types of fat. 

The first type of fat is alpha linoleic acid, so that cannot be made in the body, and that really has to be found from dietary sources. It's found mainly in vegetable oils, so things like hemp, rapeseed, and flaxseed oils. It's also found in nuts like walnuts, pecans, and hazelnuts, as well as soy products and green leafy vegetables. So as you can see, all of those things, they're very abundant in a plant-based diet so this type of fat is readily available. 

So the other fats under the the Omega-3 group can be made by the body, but they're made very, very slowly. 

They are generally only found in high levels in fish and especially oily fish. However, if you are vegetarian or vegan, then omega-3 supplements are available. High doses and omega-3 can reduce levels of triglycerides and they may relieve symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis. 

However, it's really important to note that there is no conclusive evidence, but Omega-3s have been linked also to improve sleep, to lower blood pressure, therefore reduce stroke risk and also they may improve your memory. 

Michelle Harrison 

OK, great. So that's another one that we can think about then like you say, those Omega-3s that you would normally get from eating oily fish, if you're not going to eat oily fish, then you might need to think about potentially taking a supplement. There's obviously, like you say, there's a big list of them. 

Yeah. And it sounds to me like there's more than enough of these in your diet, but like you need to be eating a really rich varied diet in order to make sure that you're getting them. 

Lizzie Brown 

Yeah. And I think a lot of these vitamins and minerals as well, even if you weren't strictly following a plant-based diet. You still need to be aware of these sources and incorporating them in your diet, in terms of variety. 

So calcium is another nutrient to be aware of. And so we know this is essential for your bone health and along with weight bearing exercise, calcium is a nutrient to be aware of. 

And an adult requires about 700 milligrams a day, and I think it's also important to be aware for females once they reach menopause, this goes up to 1200 milligrams. 

Traditionally, people would think of your dairy foods as being your main calcium source, so that would be your milk, your cheese, your yoghurt. Yeah, but also majority of plant-based milks are fortified with calcium these days, so I think once again just having a look at the label and check that it is fortified. 

But unless you've gone for sort of a perhaps an organic or more boutique one, that may not have additives in it, the majority should have calcium included. So just to give an example, 200 mils of fortified soy and milk would have about 240 milligrams of calcium, which is about 35% of your requirement. 

Michelle Harrison 

So again, it just comes down to checking that the products that you're using particularly like, say plant-based milks are fortified. And then hopefully you should be getting what you need. 

Lizzie Brown 

Yeah. And there's also some calcium and things like your dried fruit as well. So things like your figs and also in nuts. And once again some of your fortified cereals and bread products will have some. 

Sesame seeds, tahini, tofu, and green leafy vegetables also have some calcium, so once again it's back to that variety in the diet. 

Michelle Harrison 

Yeah. It's like it's more than you're more than capable of getting the nutrients that you need, provided that you just eat a really varied diet, which is good to know. And that's important for everybody no matter what, no matter what stage of life you're at, no matter what kind of diet you choose to follow, it's important to get a really good variety, you know. 

Anyone can miss out on these things if they're not eating a good variety of fruit and vegetables and pulses. 

So again, it kind of comes down to that key message at the end of the day. 

Lizzie Brown 

Yeah, absolutely. 

Rebecca McBride 

So we've covered quite a lot of the big ones. The ones that you'll probably hear about more often, but there are a few other ones that are equally as important that I think it's useful to talk about. 

So one of them is iodine. So iodine is a mineral that's important for our health. It's a key part of the thyroid hormones that are needed for many body processes such as growth and metabolism. The major sources of iodine in the diet are dairy products and fish. 

If you're following a plant-based diet, this is it's quite important to do a bit of research your own research into this because the iodine content of plant foods depends on the iodine content of the soil where the food is grown and the iodine content of soils can vary quite significantly. 

So for example, foods growing closer to the ocean tend to be higher in iodine. 

So where soils are iodine deficient, you can choose foods such as seaweed because they can provide a source of iodine. However, again like I said, because the iodine content of foods are variable, sometimes you can have too much iodine, so some sea vegetables can be very high in and an excess of iodine and can be unhealthy. So if you are concerned about this or you're maybe taking an iodine supplement, it's really useful to to discuss this with a dietitian. 

Michelle Harrison 

So again, get that advice that's tailored to you, if you. 

Are if you're going to do it long term or if you're concerned about your nutrition, you want to find out a bit more. You can always like you say get referred to a dietitian to get that advice that's more tailored to you in the long run. 

Lizzie Brown 

So we've also got selenium, which is important for reproduction, thyroid gland function, DNA production and protects our body from the damage caused by free radicals and infection. 

And so the richest sources of selenium are in your seafood, and your organ meats and the amount in plant-based foods depends once again on the soil. So because it's a trace element depending where that plant comes from will depend how much selenium is in the product. Because of this geographically, you're selenium concentration will vary a lot. 

So being aware of your plant-based sources and I think the main one that a lot of people think of is your Brazil nuts provide a good source of selenium and there are also selenium in brown rice, whole wheat breads, beans, oatmeal, and lentils. So once again it's just being aware of including these things in your diet. 

Michelle Harrison 

I know that Brazil nuts is always one that sticks in my head as well, because it's written right on the packet and they think for lots of us when we are making nutrition choices, we're so busy that we're just trying to get things on the go and you, you know, you are thinking about your health, but convenience is really important too. So you don't always have time to check the labels or sometimes you might think you're buying something that's good for you and maybe it's not as good as you think. 

So yeah, I always remember selenium being plastered on the front of Brazil, not pack it to include you. 

Lizzie Brown 

Nice and easy.  

Michelle Harrison 

Yeah. And then it's one of those things that sticks in your head, like when you're a kid. 

Your yoghurt pot always says high calcium on the front and things like that, so that's a nice easy one to remember. It's super interesting about the the soil content. That's really, really interesting. 

Lizzie Brown 

So we've also got zinc and this helps with your immune system fighting off bacteria and viruses. And we also need zinc to make proteins in our DNA, the genetic material in our cells. 

I think it's also really important in terms of helping wounds heal and for your proper sense of taste and smell. 

So in terms of zinc, your meat, poultry, and shellfish contain the highest levels, but it is also found in plant based protein sources like your legumes, beans, peas, lentils, nuts, and seeds. However, these forms are less easily absorbed, so it's just being aware it's important that you're having enough of those protein sources. 

Generally, if that is going to be your main protein source, then alongside that you should be getting your zinc content from those foods. 

Michelle Harrison 

So we've covered loads, we've covered protein, vitamin B12, iron, omega-3, calcium, iodine, selenium, and zinc. So loads of really great information in there. It sounds to me like the key takeaway is variety is key. As with any diet, what would you say to anyone who might feel a bit overwhelmed by the amount of nutrients that we have just covered, there's a lot to think about. 

Lizzie Brown 

Yeah, there is. I think being aware as well that a lot of these nutrients, even if you weren't moving to a, you know, a plant-based diet, you still need to be aware of them in the diet. And so even people who do eat meat quite regularly, you know, may not have the best calcium intake or may not be aware of things like vitamin B12 or omega-3. So I think the key really is, a lot of these nutrients everybody needs and if you are heading towards a plant-based diet, just being aware of them. But as you've mentioned, variety is key and if you are having a diet that is very varied you should be able to meet the majority of these nutrients with no issue, yeah. 

Michelle Harrison 

Yeah, definitely. And it's like what we were saying earlier about, you know, you can be someone who eats everything in moderation and you can have a healthy diet or you can have a very unhealthy diet depending on the choices that you make. And it's the same when it comes to following the plant-based diet. You can have a healthy plant-based diet or you can choose to eat plant-based junk food because it is out there, so it comes down to the choices that you make and being conscious of what you're putting into your body. 

Lizzie Brown 

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 

Michelle Harrison 

Cool. Well, thank you. That was all really, really good information. Loads to take away. 

So we've been sent in a couple of questions from some of our colleagues across Bupa who want to find out more about plant-based diets to ask you guys if that's OK. 

So the first question which I think is really interesting and would be great to get your guys thoughts on is the topic of sustainable eating seems to be something that's really trending at the moment. So the topic of sustainable food and sustainable eating, particularly if the reason that you want to move to a plant-based diet is because of environmental reasons. So what our colleague wants to know is just what's meant by sustainable eating and is it a good idea? 

Rebecca McBride 

So defining what is actually meant by a sustainable diet and sustainable eating is quite difficult because there isn't any like agreed consensus or definition, however, I've picked out one definition that I like, so that comes from the Food and Agriculture Organisation and they describe a sustainable diet as a diet with low environmental impact which contributes to food and nutrition security and to a healthy life for present and future generations. They say that sustainable diets are protective and respectful of biodiversity and ecosystems, culturally acceptable, accessible, economically fair, and affordable, they're nutritionally adequate, safe, and healthy, while optimising natural and human resources. 

And that is a very lengthy description. But the reason why I picked that and the reason why I think that definition is my favourite definition, is because it does say that sustainable diets are nutritionally adequate, safe, and healthy. So while it is really important for your diet to be sustainable and protect the environment, it's equally as important to make sure that it's nutritionally adequate. So if you want to make sure that your diet is more sustainable then we have a few simple tips to reduce the impact on the environment. 

So one of those tips could be to try and source your food more locally and seasonally. So instead of buying all your food from the supermarket, trying to go to farmer farmers markets, Lizzy, do you have any other tips? 

Lizzie Brown 

Yeah. So you mentioned at the the start things like having meat free Monday for example, so even if it's moving towards having less meat and increasing your plant based protein sources. And also things like trying to reduce your food waste. So freezing things if you don't think you're going to eat at all. Trying to use up leftover things in the fridge instead of throwing them away. Also avoiding single use plastic, so using things like reusable coffee cups and bottles. All of these little things to make a contribution. 

Rebecca McBride 

So if this is something that really interests you, or you want to find out more about sustainable diets, then a useful resource that you could look at is the one blue dot project. So if you just go onto any search engine and type in one blue dot, then you'll find this project that will give you a lot more information about how you can make your diet. 

Michelle Harrison 

Great. That's really, really helpful. Really good to know. 

Another question that has come in is actually about plant milk. We've talked a lot about plant milks and looking for fortified versions and the nutrients that you can get if they've been fortified. But what we want to know is first of all, for anyone who might not know what is a plant milk and second of all, there's a few kind of rumours out there that some plant milks can be full of sugar, full of additives, actually quite low in nutrients and not actually as good for you as they might be perceived. So what do you guys think about that? 

Lizzie Brown 

So we're going back to the first part of that question. So what our plant milks? Essentially, plant milks are plant-based milk. So they’re non dairy and they may be things like your almond milk, cashew coconut rice, soy milk and oat milk. And I think they are becoming more popular and you know,  there's plenty of them in the supermarkets these days. 

I think plant-based milks can be an easy swap for a lot of consumers and in terms of the additives, I think that's where once again it comes back to looking at the label. 

And looking at what is in there? So some may have sugar added but some may not and so I think just when you're checking as well, think about whether it's fortified with calcium, or some are fortified with iodine these days, also looking at has there been lots of sugar added to this product? There certainly are some that are sugar free and don't have all of those additives in there, so it is just once again down to finding a product that works for you and looking at that label. 

Michelle Harrison 

I know some that I've seen some are labelled as unsweetened. So does unsweetened mean that they automatically don't have sugar in them, or should you still be kind of like say, doing a bit of a deeper dive in looking at the back and looking at the ingredients? 

Rebecca McBride 

I think it's really important to look at the label anyway because like Lizzie said, it's really important to think about not just sugar but to look at the vitamins and minerals, but I think it's safe to presume. 

If they say unsweetened, they haven't got any sugar added. 

Michelle Harrison 

So that actually leads on really nicely into the next question that came in. So this question is, does producing and importing health foods. So for example, avocado, quinoa, and plant milks like we've just discussed, have more of a detrimental impact on the environment than if you were to eat locally sourced animal products? 

Rebecca McBride 

I mean, that's a a really good question. So let's kind of link it back to the plant milk since we've just come from that and there is some debate about the sustainability of these plant-based milks. It's really important to take note of the greenhouse gas emissions, the land, and the water use, all of which are highly dependent on the country of origin. And the farming practices. 

So just thinking about Soya first, so soya dairy alternatives like tofu and soya drinks are significantly more sustainable compared to dairy across all measures. So that's looking at the greenhouse gas emissions, the land use, and the water use. 

For all the other plant-based drinks that we've discussed, the data is quite limited. However, the data that we do have indicates that the greenhouse gas emission levels will be similar to the Soyer products, therefore significantly lower than the milk. However, the production of rice and nuts can be extremely water intensive, and it could mitigate the benefits of the lower greenhouse gas emissions. 

Again, water used for nut cultivation is extremely variable depending on the country of origin. So just to give you an example water use for not cultivation can range anywhere from zero where only rain water is used to 500,000 litres per 100 grammes of protein produced. 

So despite this, it's safe to assume that nut milks and all plant-based milks have a lower overall environmental impact compared to dairy milk when you consider the full range of environmental impacts. So that's the greenhouse gas emissions, the land use, the water use, pollution, deforestation, and soil degradation. 

Michelle Harrison 

Do you have anything else to add to that, then Lizzie? 

Lizzie Brown 

I think it's also important to sort of, as Rebecca touched on, look at where this product was produced. And so we did also look into how much of an impact the food miles affects things in terms of how the product was produced. So some of the studies that we looked at showed that transportation only accounted for about 11% of the foods greenhouse gas emissions. 

And so really once again, looking at transportation, whether it's by rail and water, which we know is more energy efficient than air or truck transport will make a difference. I think the main take home is buying local will reduce your average consumers greenhouse gas emissions. But even making a small change such as substituting some red meat and dairy for chicken fish, eggs or vegetables will probably achieve a greater greenhouse gas reduction than just switching to a diet that's entirely locally produced. 

Which may actually be very difficult anyway. 

So eating foods that are in season and less processed foods will further reduce your greenhouse gas emissions. 

Michelle Harrison 

Yeah, that's really interesting. So it's just not black and white, is it? There's loads to consider. Absolutely loads. 

Lizzie Brown 

Not at all. Yeah, a very tangled topic. 

Michelle Harrison 

Final question for you guys that has come in then is related to soy products. So this person wants to know whether or not soy products are any good for you because they've heard that some of them might be full of hormones in the way that they're produced. 

Rebecca McBride 

Soy is highly acclaimed by some people as a health food because it has a lot of benefits such as reducing the risk of osteoporosis and protecting against some hormonal cancers like breast cancer and prostate cancer. But at the same time, soy is shunned by others for the fear that it may cause breast cancer. It may cause thyroid problems and dementia. 

So this controversy comes from the fact that soy contains high levels of a type of plant called oestrogen that is similar in function to human oestrogen, but it has much weaker effects. 

And these hormones in the plants, these plant hormones appear to have a different action in the body based on a number of factors. 

So if you look at the type of study, these studies that make claims that soy is unhealthy, use animal studies. So more studies linking soy to cancer are done in lab animals, and because humans metabolise soil differently than rats, these findings might not apply to humans. 

The other thing that they base them on is the persons existing hormone levels. So the effect of soy can vary depending on the existing level of hormones in the body. So, for example, postmenopausal women have lower levels of oestrogen in the body, so the weak effect of these plant oestrogen can slightly increase the body's oestrogen and so relieve menopausal symptoms. 

So due to these varying factors, it's really difficult to make a blanket statement about the health effects of soil. However, from the current studies, there doesn't appear to be any substantial evidence that soy definitely increases or decreases health risk. 

So putting all these studies, putting all this evidence debate to one side, soy does still contain many essential nutrients including B vitamins, fibre, potassium, magnesium, and it's also a very high-quality source of protein. 

So unlike some plant proteins like we've touched on before, soy protein is considered a complete protein and it contains all nine essential amino acids. 

Michelle Harrison 

So that's really great. Thank you guys so much for answering all those questions. There's tonnes of information and loads to take in and digest. And I think like you said it, it's not black and white. There's a lot to it and a lot more detail we could go into. But if you wanted to give one key kind of take home message for people that are maybe thinking about adopting a plant-based diet, what would you say? 

Lizzie Brown 

And I think and we sort of touched on this a little bit as well throughout the podcast, but variety is really key. So I think having a varied diet is important. And even if you know you are moving towards a plant-based diet, there are small, easy, significant changes that you can make towards that. 

And the other thing I would say as well is just if you are thinking of moving towards a plant-based diet and if you have got any pre-existing medical conditions, it may be a good idea just to discuss with the dietitian or doctor first before changing things. It may not always be the best option for your health depending what else is going on. 

Michelle Harrison 

So I think we could go on and on about this subject. It's really interesting. And there's just so much to it, but that's all we've got time for in today's episode. Thank you both so much for joining me and for all the great tips. It's been so interesting to talk to you both. Don't forget that you can get loads more advice on nutrition and healthy eating if you search for blooper healthy eating. 

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