Men’s health in the workplace

Welcome to "Inside Health, "The Highs and Lows of Being a Dad."

Shortly, I'm gonna be joined by Kelvin Fletcher.

We tackle some of your taboos, answer some of your questions, and give the truth behind what it's like to be a dad.

Kelvin, great to see you. Great to see you again.

Welcome to The Queen's Cafe.

It's a very nice setting here, but we're here to talk about parenthood.

You're a busy man, but recently just had twins.

How is that (laughs) working out for you?

A very busy man, and obviously a lot busier.

I think the best way to describe it for me is surviving.

I'm in survival mode. I'm in the trenches.

As a family, it's overwhelming at times, and it's great, don't get me wrong.

And I'm sure in the future we'll look back and be envious of those chaotic, crazy times when everything's a little bit more settled and easier, but in the minute, it is absolutely...

You know, get ready for, it feels like war at times in the kitchen at breakfast time.

But no, it's great, it's fantastic, it's really enjoyable, but yeah, it's tough, I won't lie.

Being a parent, I think, is the hardest thing you will ever do.

It's the most challenging role, but weirdly, you have been gifted to play, and it's the most rewarding, and I think that's consistent.

I have to keep reminding Liz, and she has to sometimes remind me when things do get hard, is that it is a blessing.

It's an absolute gift to be a parent and an extra special gift when you're a parent of twins and two more as well, so a family of six and four children.

So it's important, it is hard at times, and every situation, every dynamic is different, is unique.

What works for us as a family might not necessarily work for you and and for other people, so it's just finding that balance, navigating.

And as experienced parents, you'd like to think that we knew what we were doing now, but we're still learning, still on our journey of discovery and I'm first to admit, probably still making mistakes along the way with how we parent at times, and so yeah, it's just an ever-evolving learning curve.

Yeah, you said that you almost feel like a new parent again, especially when it's a new dynamic and scenario having twins, but the first time you became a father, what was that like for you, because there's lots of people you can speak to, books you can read, but nothing can quite prepare you for it, can it?

I always imagined my life, my future, being a father, that when I get older, my role was gonna be, first and foremost, as a father.

I was hoping and praying that one day I'll have my own family.

I'll have a wife and children, and that's all I could picture when I thought about the future.

Yes, there's certain acting jobs and certain things I wanted to do in my career, but first and foremost, it was a family, being a family man and have a mini Kelvin and Kelvinettes running around wherever we are, and that's all I pictured, so I feel like in that sense I was prepared.

Foolishly, naively, I felt like I was prepared to be a parent, couldn't wait to be a parent.

And then obviously, when it happens, as you know, nothing can prepare you for parenthood, no amount of books, of YouTube videos, of forums, of classes, of listening to friends' advice, can prepare for what's about to be.

And like I say, it's the hardest but yet most rewarding job I've ever had, and I think ever will have.

One of those bits of advice that you get before you become a parent is get the sleep in whilst you can.

But sleep deprivation, it's real.

What's your relationship like with sleep, and how have you coped since having babies?

I don't mind my sleep.

I've been known to sleep. I can sleep.

If there's sleep to be had, I will have it, but that whole notion of banking your sleep, it's a myth.

Myth, (laughs) it's a myth!

You can't, I wish you could, but you can't bank your sleep, it just cannot be done.

Get it in whilst you can. So when people are saying, "Get it in while you can, while you've got a chance," yeah.

What are you doing with it? Where's it going?

Where'd you store it? Where'd you put it?

I'd love to know, 'cause I've needed to delve into it over the last week.

Can I have that five hours I had six months ago?

Can I just dip in and have it now?

I think sleep deprivation is a form of torture, and yeah, I think I'm averaging about four or five hours at the minute.

And lie in, I can't remember the last time I had a lie in, even at weekends, Sundays, still six, 7 o'clock.

Of course, kids don't know it's the weekend.

Yeah, kids don't know, they don't care.

They don't know it's Sunday morning, and they actually don't care, they really don't.

It's really tough, isn't it?

Because I guess men have often been spoke about or not having the ability to be able to share how they feel, and sometimes, I've felt anywhere, and I'm sure you might be the same, you have to internalise how you're feeling, because for fear of saying, "I'm tired, I'm sore, "I'm this, I've got stress at work," or whatever, because of what the reaction might be.

Unfortunately, we can't compare the separate roles and the different anxieties and physical and emotional different bits that we're all going through, and it's so important to not compare them, but listen to one another as individuals, because if you are tired, that's fine, and that needs to be listened to as much as Liz who's been up through the night and tired, because you've been tired at work is just as valid as Liz has been tired through the night.

It is, it arises often, you're right.

And its not just Liz, it's not just Liz.

I think it's exactly that, because this shouldn't be a comparable, because you've got a completely different set of circumstances, and the two can never really truly be compared, so I think you're right, to even attempt to try and compare that I think is wrong, and it's that thing of just both accepting that it's hard for everyone at the minute, and sleep deprivation is one of the hardest things.

But you know what, that aside, there'll be pockets, there'll be moments, and at times, it does really feel like moments amongst the majority of tough times.

You get that little smile, or you get that little cuddle, and it genuinely makes it all worthwhile.

And I think that's always really hard and important to remember is to remind each other of those moments and reassure each other as well.

I think me and Liz, that's one good thing we are good about is reassuring each other when each other is struggling is that we're in this together.

It's a team effort, and yeah, we're both doing it tough.

Yeah, absolutely.

You are proud of being a dad, full-time champ.

Does life get easier or what lessons have you learned along the way?

Does life get easier?

I certainly don't make the same mistakes, more often than not, I won't make the same mistakes twice with children, so I'm pretty good at nappy changing now.

But as regards to getting better as a parent, I'd like to think I'm a better father.

There's one thing it has taught me now, a lot more and the third time, luckier, is just be a little bit more present.

That's maybe what I wasn't doing initially when I had all the time in the world with Marni to be present, because I had no work, and I'd chose that time to be absolutely with her and be with the family.

And then as work and life gets in the way, and understandably, reality kicks in, and there's there's certain responsibilities you've gotta go and do.

It's so easy in this day and age to be thinking of the future.

I'm very ambitious and very active and my wife as well, and what it has taught me absolutely, as a father of four now, is to be absolutely present.

Any moment you can be is to be present, because my daughter's six now, and it feels, literally, like I was changing a nappy, it feels like two minutes ago.

That's the bizarre thing about time is the perception of time, like an hour is still an hour, but an hour in the middle of the night feels very different to an hour in the middle of the day.

And whilst you're in it, and you are just trying to survive, that time feels like it is dragging, but it's not until you look back, and you think, wow, that went so quick.

And so for me, when I had Phoenix and Ruby, Phoenix, my first, I had two weeks off, then went back to work.

Ruby, we had three weeks before COVID.

I was at home for six or seven months.

And what felt like the norm for Phoenix, 'cause I didn't know any different, it really challenges you, because you were talking about learning all the rest of it and having that element of just trying to be present as a father, that is something that has massively weighed on me.

I can't go back and fix it with Phoenix, had to get back and do work, that's just how the world designed for it to be for them.

But for now, my word, those lessons of just being present, 'cause they do grow up so, so fast, way quicker than how it feels when you're in it.

And I think it's easier said than done.

Life does get in the way and work commitments, whatever it might be, but I think again, just prioritising when you can, is children is first and foremost.

All children want is your attention.

No gift can ever out...

It's just absolutely they want you and you only, and whether that's walking in a park, wrestling in the bed, cuddling, or doing whatever, that's all they really, really crave.

And I guess that should be reassuring for any parent

Who at times maybe can't give them what he or she thinks they need.

Giving yourself is absolutely all you need to give, and that will always be enough.

Yeah, you said you had this paternal instinct before you had babies, but I guess one of the other pressures of being a father is the financial responsibility.

I know it's not the same for everyone, depending on who is the dominant person, but as a father of four, family of six, the emotional, physical, and financial pressure for you and for other people out there, and we're going through a cost of living crisis, what would you say to those people who are trying to do everything they can do?

It is odd, I think yeah, you feel like at times, certainly I do, you're pulled from so many different directions, so many commitments, responsibilities, and you're just trying to, again, find that balance.

What is the right balance?

What is the right time to apply to certain things, and everyone's reality is different.

I'm at times a bit of a workaholic.

Liz is always trying to remind me, "That can wait, just be here, be now.

"Have tea with us. Let's all sit down together," and I have to check myself sometimes, because I'm already thinking of what needs to be done next.

And ultimately, what I'm trying to do and achieve is for the better of our family.

That doesn't necessarily justify it in any way, because all the kids, like I said, want, is dad there.

So it is hard to find that balance and every dynamic, every situation, every family will be different.

But I think what is reassuring amongst the financial challenges that I guess we are face in some capacity and to be your own person is, I think that's important, as parents, we're just so engrossed on being a parent and providing, whether that's going out to financially provide or just emotionally provide for your family, to be that rock, to be that whatever dynamic you play in that family setup is to be yourself as well.

It's for me to be Kelvin, not the husband, not the father, just for me to be me as well, because that's important, and I expect that and try and actively tell Liz and remind Liz.

I sometimes think it's a little bit harder for the female to allow herself, it's so taxing being a mom, certainly at the minute with four children running around.

And I want to try and tell her to say, "You can just be you, be Liz. "You don't have to be my wife.

"You don't have to be a mother, just be yourself."

And that's why careers, I think, are quite important to still have that focus and that fulfilment in that sense and hobbies and your own time, whether that's exercising, gym, whatever it might be, just to have that moment and naturally, it will be a compromise.

I might have played golf once upon a time.

To go and play golf for four hours once or twice a week now is absolutely unthinkable and rightly so, so there has to be some compromises.

But I still think within that, wherever you find your little bit of you time,

I think is key, and I think that then goes further, as to once you've got that balance throughout, I'd like to think that the pressures of life are just lifted that little bit.

And we'll all go through adversity and challenging times, but just to accept that as a parent, just to accept that when you embark as a parent in today's world, it's gonna be absolutely challenging.

It's gonna be the hardest thing you will ever do.

Everything's engineered in a family to be focused on the family, but how do you then separate that, find time for yourself, Kelvin, Liz, and how do you also find time to be Kelvin and Liz, pre-kids and just being two compatible human beings, adults that find time and find that level of enjoyment.

Yeah, I think it is important.

For me, walking is my thing.

That's your thing? Yeah.

And I don't do it half as often as I would love to, personally, but again, I'm willing to make that compromise, because work and relationship with my wife and children as a dad, so there's all many things, feeding the pigs, feeding the sheep, whatever it is going on in my life, I have got a lot of very, very active, I've got a lot going on, but when I can get those little pockets of me time, a good old walk, and it doesn't have to be in the countryside.

Yes, we live in the countryside, and it's some beautiful scenery to walk around, but just walking around.

I was working in London recently, just walking down the South Bank for 20 minutes during my lunch hour, was just what I needed.

It's just a time for me to just to zone out and have my own thoughts, and everyone's got their own little things to go to.

But for me, I think walking is... And I think anyone, if they can give it a go, everyone'll always find their thing, but for me, I get a lot from walking.

I've come from a career playing rugby here at the Steep for 14 years and understand the correlation between physical activity and mental health.

How do you, beyond just walking, or what messages would you have to other parents out there who are trying to make some time for themselves and mentally have a little bit of liberty and finding their own space.

It always pays dividends.

If you've got a clear head space, how will you find that clear head space, whether it's through exercise, physically or for whatever it might be, reading a book, listen to a podcast, doing yoga, whatever it might be, seeing your kids, cuddling with your kids, whatever, I think if you can find that mental clarity and that mental health space where you're in a good head space, and that's always key.

Do you think your mental health has suffered through being a dad and all the pressures that come with it?

Yeah, I think, yeah, I'd be the first to admit, my mental health would've suffered over the years at times when things have been challenging, whereas as a parent, with career, whatever it might be.

And I think it'd been more worrying if it doesn't happen.

It makes us stronger, that's how we adapt, we learn.

We've gotta go through some sort of adversity.

So I don't shy away from that, from the little failings, from shortcomings, whatever it might be, because you learn from it and- 'Cause it's really important how we frame the conversation of mental health.

'Cause if I asked anyone during their careers, then whatever they do out there, "Has your career been plain sailing?"

That's say, "Probably not."

Physically, we've all had ailments, been ill, or whatever it might be.

No one has this plain sailing track that they live upon.

And the same is the same for your mental health, and it's fine to be able to talk about it and own it, but we need to try and remove that stigma and just totally understand and accept that it's never just gonna be plain sailing, 'cause that is just part and parcel of being life.

I think it's reassuring when you hear somebody else is struggling or is struggling.

Makes you more likely to come out and say something.

Yeah, for me, when they say, "What advice could you give?"

When I've heard that another dad for the first time or certainly at the minute, a dad with twins, and he'll tell me about, "Oh it's tough."

He'll tell me about all the problems, all the headaches, and I'm just like, "I absolutely get it."

It's so relatable, and it really resonates with me.

I instantly feel better, because I know somebody else is going through it.

So I think once you know, and we all are, regardless of retired rugby player, of actor, whatever jobs or lifestyles we might lead, ultimately, as human beings, the dynamic is the same.

We all go through the same thing, and there's the relatability throughout.

Once you learn that somebody else is going through or feeling what you are feeling, for me, it's a massive weight of my shoulder, because I feel like if someone else is going through it, then it just feels easier, and I'm going through it with somebody else.

So yeah, talking about it I think is key, and it always just makes things that a little bit easier knowing that somebody else is getting the death stare off his wife when he's made the mistake of saying that he's tired.

All those little things I think help.

It's not all doom and gloom, being a parent.

Of course we're battling and talking about some really relatable and pertinent topics in regards to being a dad, but that also provides some of the best moments and memories.

What would you say is some of the most rewarding memories that you've had with your kids?

We camped out for the first time ever.

This was just before the twins, and as a family.

And I guess what that suggests, it's moments like that, and we could have the exact same moment in bed on a Sunday morning when the six of us are just in bed, and it's just us.

For us there's no real holiday, there's nothing materialistic, there's no big occasion, it's the doing nothing, just being together in the simplest of setting when you're all there cuddled up.

That for me would be my dream when I think of a highlight that's immediately what I go to and what I focus on.

It's just, I've earned a bit of cuddled up and knowing that this is our little world, and we're a little team, and it's building those relationships throughout that we're all gonna grow old together, and we feel like we're just at the start, the beginning of this journey.

And I'm sure that in five years time, 10 years time, we'll feel again that we're at the beginning of this journey.

It always feels like we've got the rest to go at.

So I think that's, again, it's just being present, and that feels like a highlight, even though I can't pinpoint a particular time.

Kelvin, thank you so much for that, for the insight as well as the honesty, but now we're gonna tackle some taboos.

We've got some well-researched questions that have come in from Bupa, as well as questions that I'm sure are asked around the globe, daily.

Quick fire, if we can rattle through these.

The first one is, "I don't feel like my baby needs me."

I've felt like that at times. You've got two options.

I think that night feeds will be the... That's the first thing that comes into my mind when you feel like you're useless.

If Liz is feeding, what do I do?

Do I, A, get some sleep and then get shouted at in the morning, or do I just wake up and feel like I'm doing the pointless thing, but it is helping, I guess, and just pass the baby over, at least be awake with her.

I feel like those initial few months that I'm trying to be some sort of help, and at least your willingness to do the tough stuff with her really.

Exactly, just trying to find a role that actually helps and supports.

Question number two, "I feel like a fraud.

"It's supposed to be the happiest time of my life, "but I feel really down."

Well I think baby blues is a thing.

I think if women can feel that, then there's no reason to suggest why men can't feel it as well.

So yeah, I guess it's understandable, because it's just such a lifestyle change.

It's such a change emotionally, and it has quite a profound effect on you, and at times it probably feels, in this case, a little bit of a negative, and you just can't quite find your feet.

So I just think embrace that and don't be too hard on yourself, and just know that in the coming months, things will turn around and just always remember that you've been blessed with an absolute gift.

So it might not feel like that at 3:00 in the morning when it's screaming, but it does get easier.

Yeah, it certainly does.

I'd love to add to that by saying, it's not that you're meant to feel like anything.

I think story books, and history's dictated that it is the best moment of your life, but it's made to feel like how it actually is, and if that's your reality, there shouldn't be a pressure of some reference point of some family that you don't know or some made up story.

It is actually gonna be hard, because it's the biggest shift you'll ever find in your life, and if you are suffering and struggling, talk about it, but don't have the pressures from outside perspectives to what your life is meant to feel like right now.

And most people, when you ask them, "Now that you're parents, "how are you getting analysed?" Normally, nine times outta 10, they always say, like I said, "It's tough, it's great, but it's tough."

Okay, question number three, "I don't know what I'm doing, and I'm feeling anxious."

What would you say? I didn't know what I was doing, and I felt anxious, so hopefully that's something.

I think we've all been in that position, all felt like that, as long as you're doing something.

I don't think we're meant to just instinctively know every situation.

Certain things I think will come more natural to us than maybe others, and that's only right.

I think we're all different, but I think as long as you're just doing what feels right to you, and nine times outta 10, I think that's gonna be the right thing to do.

Everyone's blagging it.

I did NTT class with Lucy before Phoenix.

We had a birth plan that got ripped up, out the window, and then we were blagging it.

I didn't have clue, and then by the time you get home for all the reading and research that goes into it and chatting to other parents, you are blagging it every single day, 'cause what is written on textbook does not always translate to real life, 'cause babies, they are very unpredictable.

Question number four, pertinent one, "I miss my old life. This isn't what I thought it would be."

(sighs) Yeah, it is.

Again, I've been there, I've thought, I didn't think it'd be this hard.

I still thought I could play golf twice a week. (both laughing) The reality, I think, to accept.

You're fundamental, there's gonna be compromise, and then once you accept that and embrace that, then I think you can manage that and manage your expectations of what this new life is gonna be like.

And at times you might be able to only focus on the shortcomings of what you're losing out on and how things are so much more difficult.

Going to the supermarket is nowhere near as easy as it used to be before you had children.

But that's fine, it's not meant to be.

And then what you get in return of those shortcomings, what feels like shortcomings, you get absolutely unrivalled moments of joy that nothing else will ever give you over, so I think that's the bit to focus on and not just what you've lost out on, but just look at what you've gained outta this.

Spot on there, Kelvin, thank you so much for joining me at The Queen's Cafe.

Thank for sharing. Thank you.

And if you know someone who is struggling with their mental health, then head to the Mental Health Hub on the Bupa website.

The primary reason is a very personal reason to me.

So just over a year ago, I lost my dad to prostate cancer.

Unfortunately for my dad, he was diagnosed far too late.

Prostate cancer is actually the most common type of cancer that men can get.

In the UK, 52,000 people are diagnosed with prostate cancer, about a thousand men a week.

But it's also the most treatable.

If you can capture and diagnose the symptoms really early.

Black people like myself are actually between two and four times more likely to get prostate cancer.

We don't know why.

Conversely, for Asian men, they are two times less likely to get prostate cancer.

We don't understand the genetics behind all of it.

But like all unfortunate diseases, it doesn't discriminate.

You're more likely to get it if you're over 55.

But me, as someone who's under the age of 40, I had to get myself checked.

I did so out of fear.

Well, if my dad got it and he passed away from it.

What does that mean for me and the rest of my family?

I've got two brothers, also got themselves checked.

It was invasive and it was slightly uncomfortable, but it pales in significance to the pain that I felt losing my father.

I guess my message really is to all men out there.

And there is that stereotype and stigma that we're not very good at talking.

And we perhaps they take our health too seriously.

As men that like to live healthy, active lifestyles, we're often more concerned about what we look like and the exterior of our body than everything on the interior.

And it's the vital organs that we have that aren't visible to anyone that we need to protect more so.

And I really want to get involved in this campaign to create that level of awareness for us as men, to be more aware of our bodies, to listen to our bodies and not ignore the symptoms that so much information out there.

So I urge every man out there to just have a greater level of awareness, get yourself checked, understand your body that much more, and just seek advice.

The messages are really simple, but it can potentially save yours or someone that you love life.

Thank you.

So, erectile dysfunction simply means struggling to get or maintain an erection, and it's a really common condition.

In fact, it's thought to affect up to 48% of men in the UK during their lives.

There are several things that can cause erectile dysfunction, and this can include problems with blood flow to the penis.

So, for example, problems such as high blood pressure or diabetes.

Men may have certain surgeries to their pelvis which can cause erectile dysfunction as a side effect.

There are certain lifestyle factors that can cause or increase your risk of developing erectile dysfunction, such as being overweight, smoking, or drinking heavily.

It can also be linked to mental health, so depression, anxiety, and even poor sleep.

In some men, it can be linked to low testosterone levels.

So, around 2% of men age 40 to 70 and 5% of men age 70 to 79 may have low testosterone levels, which are linked.

Here are my top tips to help you manage this condition.

Lifestyle factors.

If you're overweight, losing some weight, eating a diet that is low in saturated fat, taking regular exercise, and reducing your alcohol intake.

If you're a smoker, now's a really good time to start thinking about how you might stop smoking.

Partner up with your partner.

Talking about erectile dysfunction can be really difficult, and it can have a significant impact both on self-confidence and your relationships, so it's a really good time to start thinking about being open and honest and having those conversations with your partner.

Speak to your GP.

They may want to ask you some more questions to ascertain if there could be a physical cause for your symptoms, in particular, thinking about cardiovascular issues, diabetes, high blood pressure, and hormone problems.

They may be able to recommend some treatments that they can prescribe.

For some men, talking to your pharmacist may be helpful.

There are certain medications that you can get over the counter that can help improve the blood flow to the penis.

The most important thing is not to suffer in silence.

Erectile dysfunction is a really common problem.

There's lots that can be done to help support you.

So I'm gonna give you now a three step guide to checking your testicles to make sure you haven't got any lumps or bumps at all.

Now, the first step is to make sure you're in a warm environment with your testicles exposed.

Out of the shower or out of a bath is absolutely ideal.

Now, step two, I've got a prop for this one.

So I've got a satsuma.

Obviously this is slightly larger than the average testicle, but for the basis right now, I'm gonna hold it with one hand, and use your thumb and your index finger to slowly move all the way around the testicle and making sure you don't get any lumps or bumps across the way.

So very straightforward, and you're looking for low lumps and no bumps.