Manager support for neuroinclusion

Hi, I'm Dr Ravi Lukha, Medical Director at Bupa and welcome to this Academy module where today we're discussing the topic of Neurodiversity.

Neurodiversity refers to the way in which brain function and behavioural traits can vary from person to person.

Just as you might be born right-handed or have green eyes, how your brain works and where you sit on the cognitive spectrum will be unique to you.

The majority of people may be described as neurotypical since they fall within the expected range, whereas others who fall outside that range due to conditions such as autism, ADHD, and dyslexia could be described as neurodivergent.

In the UK, it's estimated that around 15% of people are neurodivergent, affecting how they both interpret and process information.

Given the wide range of neurodivergent conditions and the fact that they can affect different people in different ways, it's perhaps not surprising that less than half of managers say they feel capable and confident when it comes to supporting neurodivergent individuals at work.

However, as a manager, it's important to get to know your team and understand what they need and when in order to help them overcome certain challenges and reach their full potential at work.

I'm now joined by two Bupa colleagues to discuss their lived experiences as both a team member and line manager around dealing with neurodiversity in the workplace.

Rob, Lou, thanks for joining us today.

Hi.

Hello.

So if we start with yourself, Rob.

Firstly, can you tell us about your neurodivergence, when it was diagnosed and how it affects you in the workplace?

Yeah.

So, I've always had all of my neurodivergences as obviously I was born with them, but they were actually diagnosed in stages.

So first of all, I was diagnosed with dyslexia around about nine or 10 years old in primary school.

Moving on throughout high school, I thought I only had dyslexia.

And it was only during a disabled student allowance assessment that it was actually sort of raised that I also had or might have, dysgraphia, ADD at the time, but it's now known as inattentive ADHD, and a little bit of dyspraxia.

But because that was where the conversation ended, no one mentioned about getting extra support, so it's only over the past few years in my working life that I've had a community of other neurodiverse people around me that I’ve started to actually learn a lot more about myself as well, and learn how the dyslexia and the inattentive ADHD actually combine and things that I've thought were just caused by one actually is caused by a combination.

And that's been really, really transformative.

Understanding more about myself and my neurodiversity.

Yeah, it's great to hear that kind of journey of self-discovery linked to your diagnosis.

And I think it's really common with neurodiversity that actually a diagnosis is a great thing.

It's a freeing thing to understand more about yourself.

Yeah, absolutely.

So Rob's touched there on his neurodivergence.

Can you tell me a bit about from a line manager's perspective, how you use that to support him in the workplace?

I think we started with just really open communication, and I had this kind of eagerness to learn about him, to make sure that we could work together, to make sure that he could thrive at work.

And as Rob's described, he's been really open about his neurodiversity.

He's part of the community in the workplace.

So I was aware that he had a certain level of comfort in talking about it.

So I just went with that.

I suppose being cautious and careful of making sure that I'm not overstepping the mark and making sure I'm not being insensitive in any way.

But, I hope that that's been successful.

Thanks, Lou, and what I love from doing all these conversations is that, people such as yourself in the line managing capacity, think of the person first and are really inquisitive to learn more about that individual and their condition, whether in this case neurodiversity, and tailor the workplace adjustments to them.

Rob, having the confidence to speak to your line manager about your neurodiversity is one thing, but getting to a stage where you're able to talk to them about exactly what you need is another.

Can you tell me a little bit about that journey for you?

Yeah.

So I wasn't always this confident opening up about my neurodiversity.

For most of my life, I've been doing something called masking, which is where you sort of hide the fact that you actually have any kind of neurodiversity.

The one thing you really don't want is to be treated differently.

And so I was always hiding from that fact through all of my education and all of my working life as well, until I'm doing the role I'm in now.

And so having the actual confidence to open up to anyone, not just a manager about this, even friends, is really, really challenging.

It's really, really tough.

I really commend anyone that is actually able to talk about it openly.

Because it is a challenge to, you know, admit that I do need support.

I do need help.

It doesn't make me any less.

I just need that little extra, and it's not preferential or special treatment or anything like that.

And when you are able to finally start to feel comfortable talking about it, you realise there was nothing really to be worried about.

It was nothing to be shy about.

You're not going to get ridiculed.

No one's going to belittle you.

You are going to get, or you should be able to get the support that you need to move forward to be your best.

If you're using 10% of your ability, just hiding the fact, imagine what you can be doing with that extra 10%.

When you start to understand that and you start to talk about these things, you can actually collaborate with people and learn different ways of working as well.

I've tried 100 different things, but everybody's different.

Everybody's neurodiversity is different.

It affects everyone in different ways.

So although I've tried 100 different things, only 10 things work for me.

You know, I come into the office a little bit more than I need to, and everybody else does because I focus better in the office.

I have noise-cancelling headphones to block out the world around me, so I can just focus on the thing that I need to focus on.

Yeah.

You know, using a text-to-speech software so things are read to me.

You know, before, before I started feeling comfortable at opening up, I used to think, 'Oh, I can't use that, it's lazy,' but it's not lazy.

It's just understanding how your brain works.

It's understanding how you work and adapting to that.

A really important message and I think, you know, giving your story, Rob, really also helps destigmatise neurodiversity, and especially how we can help in the workplace.

Thank you.

And Lou, as Rob's line manager, you must've experienced first-hand how those small adjustments can have a huge impact for someone like Rob working with neurodiversity in the workplace.

So, yeah, working with Rob, from the off, we've both had this desire to make sure that we're working together really effectively.

And Rob's got an array of strengths that I was really keen to tap into and optimise.

So one of Rob's key strengths is his tenacity.

He is fantastic at working to a deadline.

He's a great asset to the team, and when we've got a deadline in place he is unstoppable.

So we switched some project responsibilities around within the team, and Rob then took over a project that has a monthly rhythm of activity.

It's fixed deadline every month.

There's a lot of chasing to do, stakeholder management and gathering of information.

But since taking on this task, Rob has soared.

Things are on time and delivered.

He really got full ownership of the end-to-end project.

And it's been a really good move for the team.

And he's a real asset to the team because he's got full ownership of this project.

Thanks, Lou, I think that's a fantastic example for any line manager about how an adjustment can unleash people like Rob's potential in the workplace.

Yeah.

And, Rob, to round off the conversation, what would you say to somebody watching this who is neurodiverse, who doesn't know how to kind of open up at work and talk about it?

Sure.

So I think it's first of all really important just to be kind to yourself.

You can often put a lot of pressure on yourself from having a neurodiversity and having all the challenges that come with that and feeling like you have to be better than yourself to help develop the ways you work.

The best thing to do is really speak to people, and bounce off people as well.

It doesn't have to be a line manager, although that can be a really, really positive thing as well, because they can see things that you might not be able to.

Yeah, it's really important as well to understand that your company has already invested so much into you.

They're not going to stop now just because you're asking for help.

You being your best helps the company to be at their best, helps them to work at their best.

So why would they not want you to ask for help?

There is that worry that by asking for help, you know, things may change.

You may be looked down on.

But often it's not like that.

But when you do take that step, I think you will find that it is beneficial for you.

Yeah.

And it's a great message.

And what I love about your story, Rob, is you've really used your neurodiversity to learn more about yourself.

And doing that allows you to tell your line manager to be able to say what makes me tick or work best in the workplace.

So in that vein, Lou, same question really.

For somebody that might, you know, potentially struggle to open up about their, neurodiverse condition, what advice would you give to line managers around that?

I think there's a ground base of solid research that you can do.

I just mean Google and we've got some great resources.

We've got a great Neurodiversity Line Managers' Guide and a great Neurodiversity page with a raft of information on there.

But then I think it's about going straight to the person and getting to know them directly.

So, you know, I'm fully aware that not everybody is going to be as comfortable as Rob is.

Rob has already had a massive journey before we've had our working relationship.

So you know there's going to be some more cautiousness, maybe from others.

So as a line manager, you need to be aware of that and maybe more sensitive to those situations.

So opening up the conversation to let them know that you're there but waiting for them to be ready.

It might feel quite daunting thinking that you've got to understand somebody's brain chemistry and understand the wide array of neurodiverse conditions that there are, but I think it's just important to think about the actual person, bring it back to your team member and trying to understand them as a person and how they tick and how and they are, how they can optimise their skills in the workplace.

It's best for them to come to you, to ask for help, for support and, and bounce off them.

Try not to come with answers.

Come with an open mind.

Yeah, that would be the best thing.

And as well as the grounding of research that you can do online, you know, speak to HR, speak to People Services for that support and that kind of initial conversation.

But then, yeah, bring it back to the person.

Yeah.

Great.

And I think I've heard that in all of these conversations about how it's OK not to have all the answers.

Exactly.

Yeah.

We don't have to come with, X, Y, Z to say, 'Do this, do that.

' It's not how it works.

Yeah.

It's a process.

And you have to listen to the individual.

Lou.

Rob, thanks so much for joining us today, Rob, for talking about your story and your neurodiversity.

It's been really great to hear your journey and all the kind of adjustments you've made, both at home and in the workplace as well.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ravi.

Thank you for watching this Academy module on Neurodiversity.

Today, we've heard one person's story, but it's important to remember that everyone's experience of neurodiversity is different.

Line managers will never immediately have all the answers.

But the most important thing is to create an inclusive culture where employees feel supported and able to express their needs, as only then will you be able to work with them to create a more inclusive and productive work environment.

For more tools and support for dealing with health and wellbeing issues in the workplace, head to Bupa's Workplace Academy webpage.

at www.bupa.co.uk/academy.

You can access our online hub, providing both line managers and team members with practical and emotional support to educate, build resilience and help navigate neurodiversity together.

Thanks again for watching.

Intro: RICHARD NORRIS: Good morning, everyone, and welcome back to Health Horizons.

Today we'll be discussing neurodiversity in the workplace, and what organisations can do to be more neuroinclusive.

Let's start by highlighting why we think this this topic should be a priority for all businesses.

1 in 7 people in the UK are neurodivergent, which is nearly 10.

5 million people - this really puts it into perspective how many of us are neurodivergent.

And only 46% of managers feel capable and confident to support neurodivergent individuals at work - which would explain why so many employees resort to taking time off work.

More and more businesses are starting to recognise the unique strengths neurodivergent people bring to the table - which we'll get into shortly.

But while awareness is growing, providing the right support and workplace environment, is still a challenge for many.

If we want to build more diverse, resilient teams, understanding and supporting neurodivergent talent is key to unlocking their full potential.

Today, we've got a really insightful discussion for you, that explores the real value neurodiverse employees can bring to organisations.

We'll talk about the risks of overlooking neurodiversity, and share strategies that organisations can use to better support their people.

I'm delighted to be joined by Kate Hinder, Wellbeing Advisory Lead, Business in the Community.

Kate is also neurodivergent herself so is kindly going to share her lived experience with us today.

We also have Dr Josh Wellman, Consultant Psychologist, HelloSelf.

Good morning.

We also have Claire Maydew, Group Head of Inclusion, Bupa.

Claire leads our strategy to create a global culture of inclusion that enables our 100,000 people across Bupa to do their best work.

Good morning, Claire.

Jirngs As always, please send us your questions throughout the session and we'll answer as many as we can a bit later on.

We have our polls as well which I know you love.

Lots to get through so let's get started.

Dr Josh, I'm coming to you first.

Understanding neurodiversity Neurodiversity covers a wide range of conditions.

Can you explain why it's so important for organisations to avoid a one-size-fits-all approach?

DR JOSH WELLMAN: Okay.

Neuroneurodiversity really refers to how our brains process information including ADHD, autism, dyslexia, dyspraxia and dyscalculia.

It can be things like movement and coordination, ability to pay attention for long periods, to process information, etc.

And even people with the same diagnosis have very different experiences.

They can have different sets of strengths or challenges that they might experience on a day-to-day basis.

If an organisation takes a one-size-fits-all approach you might find you're being very supportive to some neurodivergent experiences but excluding people with a different set of experiences.

What's important is to understand individuals at an individual level and make adjustments for individuals but also that can help to inform your broader organisation policy.

So really what we want to do is enable people to be open about neurodiverse neurodivergents and this can result in - this open culture that's understanding people's strengths and also areas of difficulty, we can get the best of out our work force.

Something that's really important is to use the experience, the lived experience of people who are neurodivergent to inform your policy and culture.

RICHARD NORRIS: Great, so for the line manager it comes back to understanding their employees, I guess, and understanding them and knowing what makes them tick.

DR JOSH WELLMAN: Line management, really.

RICHARD NORRIS: Cool, comes down to that.

Kate, I'm coming to you next.

What are the latest trends and chats that can help to understand a neurodiverse work force?

KATE HINDER: As you said in your discussion, there are a lot of neurodivergent folks about.

1 in 7, I think that's going to increase.

As folks get more diagnosis and you mentioned stigma, folks are going to be more open about the fact that they think differently.

Me, for example, I'm 54 and I only got confirmation of having ADHD this year.

I had to use a private process to do that because the wauting list in my part of the world is 15 years on the NHS.

I'll be reteared by then with any iting list in my part of the world is 15 years on the NHS.

I'll be reteared by then with any luck.

That's an experience that lots of women have.

They have presented to healthcare service quite a lot, but I think that's going to help us understand more about the ways in which women are different.

We also now know folk s who think differently in one way are going to think differently in other ways.

It's called co-occurrence.

The University of Birmingham have done a nice chart that shows the different forms that neurodivergent co-court in people, you may have heard of AudADHD, folk s who are autistic and have ADHD.

Finally, what's important in a business context, if folks are not able to get access to confirmation of their neurodiverse and that's the case for a lot of people, you don't need to have that in place for reasonable adjustments but you need one to access medication that could make a big difference to your life if you have ADHD.

that in place for reasonable adjustments but you need one to access medication that could make a big difference to your life if you have ADHD.

need to have that in place for reasonable adjustments but you need one to access medication that could make a big difference to your life if you have ADHD.

for reasonable adjustments but you need one to access medication that could make a big difference to your life if you have ADHD.

So work is an important place for a lot of reasons.

RICHARD NORRIS: The diagnosis is one thing but that doesn't stop leaders from talking to people, making the role easier for them, etc.

, that's something that everybody can do.

KATE HINDER: Of course, absolutely.

Claire coming to you.

Some organisations are understanding the link between neurodiversity and innovation.

How has Bupa worked to drive innovation?

CLAIRE MAYDEW: Yeah, great question.

I think when organisations recognise diversity and difference adds value, you can realise the benefits that diversity brings and it's all very well having that diversity but you can only ready the benefits when you create a really inclusive culture and environment where people can be themselves and be their best at work.

We have some lovely examples of that in Bupa, one that I know directly is our group comms team where they have a real mix of diversity on the team and the leader of that team has just created a space where they all are very open about their neurodivergence, how they can be their best, how we can work together so they bring their best to work and it's resulted in really imaginative, quick thinking.

They work very in a very agile way across each other's projects and I think we need to see more of that flexible way of leading teams to get the best out of them.

What we're trying to do across Bupa group-wide is to provide the frameworks for people to work within.

Last year we launched a set of accessibility commitments and when we think about accessibility, we're thinking of accessibility in its broadest sense, so physical, cognitive differences and allow business units and countries to flex that in a way that works for their teams.

And then provide the practical tools to help them bring that to life.

So in Bupa, we have a big focus on wellbeing and our personal energy programme which is a worldwide programme provides those team settings for managers to ask questions that they might otherwise struggle to ask and provide a space for people to share this is a bit about me, this is how I can work at my best.

It might be about neurodiversity.

It might not be, but we all have something we want to share to be our best.

It's about creating those environments and tools for manufacturings to have those conversations.

RICHARD NORRIS: I would have thought the best question you can ask someone is how can I help you be your best?

There's no down side to that, is there?

Right.

Go do it.

(Laughter).

Josh, back to you.

A growing awareness between the link between neurodiversity and health.

Can you tell us why this connection matters?

DR JOSH WELLMAN: Yeah, statistics suggest that people who are neurodivergent are two to four times more likely to experience health problems, maybe depression or anxiety and one of the reasons for that is really some of the stress and burnout that can be experienced in terms of the challenges that someones with neurodivergence might experience when it comes to navigate a neurotypical world.

If someone had a diagnosis of autism and they were in a workplace that was unpredictable and unstructured or there was a lot of conflict going on.

That can be very stressful for that individual and result in development and mental health problems.

So for some individuals, the mental health problem might be picked up first before neurodivergence and that can result in delays to treatment and recognition.

So I think for employees it's just really important to be able to have open conversations with your employees and provide a culture and environment where people can be open, really, about their mental health and about neurodivergence.

There are lots of really useful benefits that Bupa offer in terms of effective treatments for mental health and so we can think about talking therapies, for example, that people can get through their Bupa benefits.

If we think about work, it can actually be a very helpful thing for recovery for mental health concerns.

Employers can play a really important role in supporting people in terms of their overall health as well as their functioning of work.

RICHARD NORRIS: Thank you very much.

So lots of support there.

Coming to you, Kate, research shows that neurodivergent employees can be 30% more productive than those who are not neurodivergent.

What are the benefits an organisation can preserve as a result of hiring neurodiverse employees?

KATE HINDER: It can be true.

Some neuroinclusive folks can be productive and it's about a right role and environment.

Living and working in a world that's not designed with you in mind, it really can come at a cost to your health and wellbeing.

Making sure you give folks the best environment at work, we mentioned before the role that line managers can have in brokering that experience.

Loads of simple and effective things that you can do that can make a difference to folks, living life in hard mode.

There are practical things you can do about communication to make life easier.

In terms of strengths that neuroinclusive folks report themselves, we're talking about empathy, critical thinking, advocacy, resilience.

What modern work force didn't need that?

Diversity of thought in a psychologically safe team that prevents drink think, there's loads of evidence that diversity in organisations drives sustainable business performance, so no arguments there.

Folks with clear strength that is lend themselves to particular roles in a does can make massive contributions.

Not everybody has to be great at everything but if you have a skill set it would be rawed not to deploy that.

RICHARD NORRIS: Absolutely.

I'm going to go slightly off script now.

If I ask someone how they can be their best it comes back to the environment a bit but for some people, they're naushg, they may not want to talk to their line manager about that.

Do you have any tips that we can share?

KATE HINDER: I'm a big fan of give to kit.

When you're in a will ip position, being candid about your own stuff and the challenges that you face in life, the universe and everything can really help open the door to folks being vulnerable with you.

Building a relationship over time really helps and in very practical terms, you have all my best conversations with my son when we're walking or when we're driving because we're sitting next to each other, not across from each other.

We're facing in the same direction, both kind of, it feels less ed a vurtarial and he's adversarial and he's neurodivergent.

So am I.

Eye contact is not our favourite thing.

RICHARD NORRIS: So be thoughtful about the setup and show a bit of vulnerable.

KATE HINDER: Absolutely.

Be human.

It's not so hard.

RICHARD NORRIS: Anything to add?

DR JOSH WELLMAN: I'm a line manager as well as a psychologist and I find treating a person as a human, the first five minutes of your line management conversation can be how is the person doing?

You can talk about personal issues as well as workplace issues.

Obviously that's the main focus but it helps to make that a regular thing so it gives lots of opportunities for people to open up and talk about these things as opposed to being one-off or once a year or something like that.

CLAIRE MAYDEW: Yeah, I'm also going a little bit on a tangent but I wanted to pick up on a point raised in the question around sometimes we feel that if there's diversity in the team, then the team is going to perform more highly.

There's a risk of putting that burden on underrepresented group, whatever that is, so you might feel, oh, I'm the neurodivergent ones, that means I have to help this team before better but all we're trying to do is level the playing field so just removing those barriers thought might be experiencing and sometimes we have to challenge that mind set a little bit.

RICHARD NORRIS: Great call.

Thank you very much.

In summary for our first session, line managers can do so much to support their people as we know and show a bit of vulnerability or key points outside of an actual diagnosis and you shared the shocking stats on that, too.

It's really insightful to the statistics and the impact that neurodiversity can make.

It's key to building a healthier and more resilient workplace.

We're going to move on now, but before we do.

Know you lo a poll.

Do you think senior leaders in your business recognise the value Neurodiverse employees can bring?

Now, for the next part of today's session, we'll look Strategies to build a neuroinclusive workplace at how organisations can build a neuroinclusive talent strategy, from attracting neurodivergent candidates through inclusive recruitment practices, to supporting long-term success and retention through tailored workplace adjustments and culture.

Okay.

I'm coming to you first, Claire frchlt your experience, How does neurodiversity fit into an organisation's wider EDI strategy, and what have you seen companies do well when it comes to embedding it meaningfully?

CLAIRE MAYDEW: Yeah, I think neurodiversity, like all elements of diversity should be part of your inclusion strategy.

Sometimes that falls within a broader disability strand of diversity, but that can be quite emotive and subjective for people, but it is really important that it is highlighted as something that the organisation is focusing on.

In Bupa, we have a group-wide inclusion gram work that covers inclusive leadership, inclusive prang tiss and inclusive culture and, again, from a top level, it's high level strategy but it means that we have practical ways of helping that come to life in each business unit.

I think by country, often equality varies by law.

Sometimes neurodiversity is not talked about as much in some countries compared to the UK and where we see some really great practice around this is firstly when there's great leadership support.

So a leader speaking out in their own experience of neurodiversity.

In Bupa we had an insurance leader who talked about a family member who was neurodivergent and I can't tell you the impact that had for that community to be seen and heard.

So firstly, having that senior sponsorship and then joining that with the ground up, really listening to your people and like many organisations, we have neurodiversity networks led by our colleagues.

We have a very active parents of neurodivergent children's network which is probably the most active because there are so many challenges around education and school for children who are neurodivergent.

So really having that top-down and bottom-up approach and raising awareness.

So I think there's lots that we still don't understand around neurodiversity and we need to do what we can oh to try to make that information available at a time when it's needed.

We do expect a lot from our managers.

They have to be experts in everything and at having every conversation so I think making information readily available and bite-sized so you can take what you need when you need it and by creating that environment, we can address some of the systemic change that we need to see in things like recruitment, performance management, promotion, progression, and start to track that with the right data.

RICHARD NORRIS: Great, thank you.

Line managers have so much to remember, but.

.

.

(Laughter).

You can have the conversation with anyone, whether they're neuroinclusive or not.

KATE HINDER: That's it.

We're not asking folks to be psychologists or counselors, we're asking folks to have human curiosity to understand how folks can bring their best to work.

It's all about that interpersonal relationship, as you say, just that how are you doing conversation at the start of a call.

How are the kids?

And you mentioned kids there, of course that's our future work force.

That's the folk s who are going to be our leaders not tomorrow but the day after tomorrow.

So getting it right for them is going to be how we get it right for our own sustainable future.

CLAIRE MAYDEW: Yeah, and I think often we see adjustments that have been made for people who are neurodivergent benefit the whole team, so sending agendas out in advance, clearly labelled calendars, being clear about what you expect.

That's really God for all of us.

KATE HINDER: Universal design, right?

CLAIRE MAYDEW: Yes, inclusive design.

RICHARD NORRIS: Coming to the expert, then, Resilience is key for neurodivergent employees to thrive at work.

What role can employers play in helping build that resilience - especially when it comes to navigating challenges and sustaining long-term wellbeing?

DR JOSH WELLMAN: I think employer cans play a big role but employees can play a role as well.

Mreers can make simple changes that can make life a lot easier for their employees and get the best from them.

That could include environmental adjustments like having quiet places for people to work in, less distraction, etc.

Allow movement breaks and not expecting people to sit for really, really long periods in meetings and breaking those up a little bit.

It could be things like tech no logical changes.

Whether that's adjustments to screens or even thinking about the resources that you're putting out, so if you're using slide decks or documents, the types of text that you're using, the layout of those can be really important.

I think also developing coping strategies, providing access to things like coaching, therapy, but also self-help resources and Bupa provide all those things.

That can be really helpful for an employee.

That can help deal with stress, anxiety, procrastination, problems with motivation or perfectionism and so using these resources can help people with strategies to cope.

Things like breathing exercises, for example.

Time management, learning to pace, prioritise, plan their workload differently and part of this can be learning strategies and applying this through experience and managers can support with that too.

So I think it's important to try to get the balance and we have been talking about this throughout today's session but it's that clear communication between employers and employee, line manager and line managee.

That might be not just making these reasonable adjustments but understanding when that person might want to push themselves a little bit, might want to challenge themselves.

An example could be something like someone with ADHD wants to take on managing a big project for the first time and so I would ask a line manager to be curious about that.

What things they think they could do well.

What strengths do they have to make that a success?

Also what challenges do they foresee ahead?

How can they communicate that if it comes up?

What support do they think they need?

Having these open conversations is important.

Something that I found personally is sometimes neuroinclusive employees don't necessarily know what they need so you might be learning together through experience.

RICHARD NORRIS: And I preem whether it's a strategy it's useful for line managers to know how that employee is going to work through something so they can set alongside them and help with that and that would be a great way to approach that.

Okay.

Kate, coming to you, moving to recruitment.

Recruitment can be the first barrier to neuroinclusion.

What changes can organisations make to better support neurodivergent candidates?

KATE HINDER: I think this is a three-point plan, love a three-point plan and it's really applying inclusive lanes to recruitment practices.

First thing is are you reaching neuroinclusive folk in the first place?

You have to look at your job ad, your descriptions, your supportive information.

Are things written in plain English?

You mentioned formatting, critical particularly for folks with dyslexia.

Do they show the essential skills that a role needs?

Not everyone needs to be a team player or have excellent communication skills.

Let's focus on what the job demands.

And then the second piece is about the selection process.

We use observers in all our recruitment work from sifting right through to interviews to, I guess, provide that external perspective to make sure that folks are being treated with equity for all their identity and thinking differently and behaving differently is part of that.

At BITC, we provide our questions this advance to everybody.

Everybody gets treated the same, it's just that's advantageous for folks who are neuroinclusive but if everybody get it is same and the same is better, what's not to love, right?

We also think about using task-based approaches as well as traditional interviewing.

I mentioned you contact.

Not everybody loves looking people in the eye, so thinking about what it is you want folks to do and helping them demonstrate that rather than how good they are at talking in uncomfortable situations.

Be ready to let folks clarify what it is that you're asking of them.

Be ready for that.

That's fine.

I guess we mentioned context previously.

I have a home-working contract because that's how you get the best out of me.

I'm hopeless in an environment that has lots of busyness and excitement.

I can't do that.

Could it be that an online interview is better than one that's in-person.

Thinking about reasonable adjustments, of course, help folks bring their best.

And finally, we're back to managers again.

They need to understand neurodiversity, not at great depth, but enough to understand what neuroinclusion looks like, I guess.

Simple thing.

If you do unconscience bias training, does it four divergence ways of thinking.

RICHARD NORRIS: Yeah, and putting people at ease at well.

I would love to get the questions early as well.

KATE HINDER: But that's it, nobody loses outs.

RICHARD NORRIS: It's all about the conversation, isn't it?

If that gets the best out of the individual, great.

RICHARD NORRIS: It's all about the conversation, isn't it?

If that gets the best out of the individual, great.

Josh, back to you.

What are some new or innovative neurodiversity assessments and support options that organisations may soon be able to implement?

DR JOSH WELLMAN: We have heard throughout today's session tis here kal people have struggled to access what they need, a long waiting list, but Bupa benefits have opened up opportunities to get people assessed in a timely manager and get the support they need.

As Kate was saying, we know people with one type of neurodivergence are more likely to have another type of neurodivergence so Bupa have opened up the opportunity for joint assessments.

It mean s that people don't have to go through one process and wait and go through at process and it gets them a much fuller understanding of their situation.

Bupa do provide a lot of resources on workplace wellbeing and it relates to what we have been talking about today for line managers.

There's a line manager's guide for working with neurodivergent employees and that's just about to come out and the people I work for have been delivering a coaching service for neuroinclusive employees so it's a strength-based, goal-focused intervention designed to promote employee resilience.

People might be just processing a new diagnosis.

They might want to learn how to regulate their emotions better.

They might want to learn how to communicate better, time management, etc.

, so it can help develop a wide range of skills and improve function in the workplace.

RICHARD NORRIS: Great.

Thank you very much and at the start, I managed to miss out in the introduction that you guys partner with us.

Sorry about that.

I was so keen to welcome you all.

Do you want to do a provider and we just recently provided with Bupa to provide neurodiversity coaching services.

We started to work with SME and we're going to be opening up to corporate as well and, yeah, people have given very positive feedback so far.

Historically people have had access to assessments but haven't had additional sport following on from that so left a but in a vacuum and it's been fantastic to hear some of the responses we have had, the positive feedback in how people have found this has helped them improve their function in a work place and feel more comfortable at work.

RICHARD NORRIS: It's great to partner with you as a specialist and helping more people.

That's what we like.

KATE HINDER: I love the sound of that.

Sounds great.

RICHARD NORRIS: Claire, to you next.

How can businesses evaluate the impact of neurodiversity focused initiatives over time?

CLAIRE MAYDEW: Building off what Josh's kosh company there, we have had an abs lawsuit game changer if you think about people who have had negative experiences in school or university or whatever and try to come to terms with what does that mean for me?

I have mentioned our neurodiversity colleague-led networks, so valuable in feeding back making sure you have that two-way feedback loop and creating the safety for people to give honest feedback.

We have used our neurodiversity community to consult them on things like improvements to our workplace adjustment process, new products and marketing materials, accessibility of buildings so now office design.

They're very useful no terms of giving that qualitative feedback.

We connect those into a group wide advocacy forum so across all our Bupa countries we've representatives from our accessibility forums who come together in a quarterly advocacy forum to feedback, okay, you say you're doing this but this is what it feels like on the ground.

advocacy forum to feedback, okay, you say you're doing this but this is what it feels like on the ground.

together in a quarterly advocacy forum to feedback, okay, you say you're doing this but this is what it feels like on the ground.

My responsibility is making sure that insagt gets back to the right people and that's hugely valuable to.

Once you have that qualitative, building up the quantitative date.

We're starting to see a much better uptake of people sharing more about themselves through those systems so in an ideal world, you would be tracking that data against the employee experience and engagement survey, so we look at wellbeing and inclusion indicators from that group of people to see where we need to take action.

So a bit of both and lots of ongoing feedback when you shape stuff from the start.

RICHARD NORRIS: Lots of great points along the way.

Coming to my last question.

I have a few questions on the iPad but please send more in and a poll shortly but before that, Kate, I will ask this question.

.

.

Latest research shows that 65% of neurodivergent employees fear discrimination in the workplace.

What are the risks for organisations that fail to embrace neurodiversity and support their staff?

KATE HINDER: Well, there certainly are risks, just following on from what you were saying, Claire, the disability rights movement has had the cry for a long time "nothing about me without me" and it's so important to make sure the lived experience is reflected at the top of the organisation so I love the work you're doing with advocacy.

It's brilliant.

The first thing is the law, right?

It's very likely that neurodivergenceneurodivergence meets the criteria of a disability under the equality act of 2010.

Not everybody who is neurodivergent finds them e themselves as disabled my son would because adjustments weren't appropriate to do that.

It's important to listen to that but the law is really important and, of course, it's a loss of talent, a loss of great people.

If you recruit folks who think differently and you want that difference, then you have to look after them when you bet there.

The reputational risk when you get it wrong is substantive, right?

And we also know that university haves done great work on understanding the experience of neurodivergent people as well as employers.

Career satisfaction is a big positive enabler of wellbeing for neurodivergent people.

If you're looking after folks' progression and development, you're looking after their mental health.

That and psychological sauft are the two biggest swing factors you can control, so that's really important, right?

There's lots of us around, lots of us.

I talk about having been confirmed as ADHD because I find sometimes the language of diagnosis can.

.

.

sometimes there's an implication of deficit behind that.

There's nothing wrong with that.

There's a difference, that fine Michigan differences bring value.

You don't need to have a diagnosis or be confirmed as who you are.

What you do need is help and support that's going to work for you.

Back to the law, though, we do see tribunal rulings on folks where reasonable adjustments haven't been put in place, the business hasn't done everything it could in order to make work work neurodivergent people and we see folks winning cases about discrimination based on neurodivergence.

The only place really where you can, where an adjustment is viewed as being reasonable or otherwise is tribunal and no one wants to go there, do that?

So don't take the risk.

Get it right for folks.

Keep your talent, nurture your talent, everybody, and you will get loyalty, performance, engagement.

All the good stuff.

RICHARD NORRIS: Comes back to knowing your people.

KATE HINDER: Always, always.

RICHARD NORRIS: Thank you very much.

We're going to go to another poll.

Do you think your organisation provides enough support for neurodivergent talent?

Yes or no.

end Q&A We touched on psychological safety there which is one of my favourites.

How important is psychological safety for neurodiverse employees?

CLAIRE MAYDEW: Huge.

We have done a lot of work on psychological safety in Bupa and particularly your teams.

There are four different levels of psychological safety.

We were talking about this earlier.

Often people see them as you get to one, then you get to the other, like a ladder, but actually, Kate, and you can u lab rated - elaborate on this, talking about it as a matrix and then you work up to am I comfortable to challenge when I have something to challenge?

Am I comfortable to innovate and bring new ideas?

So as a manager, we have to create that environment for people to move through those stages, so it's not just I can be myself at work but I can challenge and bring all of my new ideas.

We have looked more broadly at psychological health and safety which goes beyond psychological safety and there's a lovely Horizons session on that too and that's looking at the psychosocial risks and I think for neurodivergent people that's important because you don't fellow safe to be yourself and the stresses that impact othermight impact you more so it's important to think about psychological safety in a psychosocial way to watch that previous Horizons session fw you haven't already.

RICHARD NORRIS: Fantastic.

CLAIRE MAYDEW: Kate, I don't know if you want to add more.

KATE HINDER: It's true.

Being valued as yourself and being able to learn, that means making mistakes to not come with made to look foolish, being punished, being able to understand your part in a team and play that well.

If all of those bits are in place, hopefully you're in a position where you should be able to innovate, to challenge the status quo and for that to be treated with, I guess, dignity and respect and provit real opportunitiesde real opportunities for folks to do things better.

Continuous improvement.

We're all about that, aren't we?

If we can find ways of making that work, we should.

RICHARD NORRIS: Great.

Thank you very much.

We're going to change pace a little bit.

How important is - oh, no, I just did that one.

(Laughter) Can you describe what an assessment is like for an autism or ADHD diagnosis?

DR JOSH WELLMAN: Let's take autism.

There are screening assessments you can do online, so sometimes you might be directed in that area or if you're having mental health treatment, for example, a therapist might sometimes do a screening assessment with you to try to get an idea.

So these have been developed and then aligned with the diagnostic criteria so they're quite reliable but they're not good nuf, really, to be able to say you have a daying know sis of this particular type of neurodivergence.

You go for a fuller assessment.

Might be asked to complete questionnaires and things like that before.

It could be a psychologist or psychiatrist or a deferent allied health professional.

There are multiple parts to this.

After that first assessment, they get to know you a little bit.

If it's sort of decided that it woun useful to go further in depth, usually it might involve lots of things involving someone that knows you really well, being asked questions about your hus history, past, challenges you have experienced, your development but also it can involve doing some tasks as well.

So, yeah, it could be semistruck interviews and you might be asked questions about your history and what you find challenging day-to-day.

There are lots of aspects to it.

The reason it's multipart is because it helps when someone gets a diagnosis that we know is accurate.

They triangulate, bring together all this information and we though these things align.

Confident in diagnosis.

RICHARD NORRIS: Kate, I don't know if you would like to share but how did it feel going through the process?

KATE HINDER: The funny thing is when I tarted the process, I was more worried about not being confirmed as thinking differently than I was as being confirmed.

If it wasn't because of ADHD, when what the heck is it?

Why is life so hard?

Why is life so difficult?

I explain ed that to the psychiatrist I saw and but he was like yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine.

But everything you described was the experience I had my husband came to one of the sessions I guess as a broker and he ticked a lot more boxes than I did which was really interesting but it felt safe, it felt supportive, you get a lovely report at the end of it that plays back what people making the assessment have heard about you and that's really helpful to get that third-party perspective and then, of course, for some forms of naur divergence that can hat can unlike access to treatment which can be transformative.

divergence that can unlike access to treatment which can be transformative.

divergence that can unlike access to treatment which can be transformative.

divergence that can unlike access to treatment which can be transformative.

divergence that can unlike access to treatment which can be transformative.

divergence that can unlike access to treatment which can be transformative.

divergence that can unlike access to treatment which can be transformative.

divergence that can unlike access to treatment which can be transformative.

ivergence that can unlike access to treatment which can be transformative.

RICHARD NORRIS: Here's an open question for anyone who would like to answer it.

Neurohow can we evolve our support to better leadership pathways?

CLAIRE MAYDEW: I think we're going to see a lot more of this as more people are confirmed with their diagnosis and also as businesses realise that we need difference to succeed and the traditional view of leadership has to change if we're going to survive in this volatile, rapidly changing world that needs constant innovation, challenges to the way we think so I think there's a switch in what we're looking for in future leaders which should play into the strength that is diversity brings.

I also appreciate that if you are a neurodivergent person you often feel misunderstood and might not conform to the behaviors we traditionally see to the people promoted at work so I think it's a real challenge but I think we are starting to see examples of that change and that's probably where things like project-based work, having a visible role in a network or doing really specific tasks where you can shine and show your strength s is really good for people to progress in a way that's not through the traditional you are a hay performer, you go through an interview for the next level, etc.

, so I think it's challenging the traditional ways of thinking about it.

RICHARD NORRIS: (Inaudible).

KATE HINDER: An add onto that, I think, progression and large organisations is based on having responsibility for people management.

Not everyone was born to be a people manager so I think sometimes removing the requirement for folks to lead teams, you don't have to lead a team in order to lead a piece of work or to lead excellence within your business.

You can be a thought leader so there are lots of ways in which folk can bring very senior and meaningful contributions, but as you say, you have to think differently about what you prize and then you have to find different routes for folks in how they excel that are not always about behaviours.

Behavior s is a really interesting one, right?

The expectation of how you conduct yourself in a place of work.

Let's have a look at that.

Are those behaviours neuroinclusive?

Are we creating spaces for folks to create their best?

Or can we think of it differently and get awesome folks driving the bus?

RICHARD NORRIS: Great.

Thank you very much.

Okay.

Last question, coming to you, Claire.

So what specific tools help managers to enable neurodivergent employees to thrive when team members all need something different?

CLAIRE MAYDEW: Um, I think coming back to the very - so we talked about this earlier where we expect such a lot from managers and I think it's a really hard job at the moment.

I think as HR teams or as leaders in our businesses, it's about making sure the right tools and resources are available as and when they need them and that they've got a really clear place to go to.

If they know someone needs coaching, oh, hello, this is where I can get that.

But also stripping it back to we're all human beings.

You don't need to know everything about me in order to manage me.

We just need to be kind to each other and create space to have an hones conversation and then, yes, we may need to do work to get the expertise in that we require but I think not getting bogged down with the oh my gosh, I have to be an spirit in absolutely everything and I think a lot of this comes back to psychological safety so everything we can do to give managers the questions to ask, the frame of mind going to these conversations I think will help every to bring their honest selves to work and, yeah, thinking about this as a benefit for our future work force.

We have to be good at this.

RICHARD NORRIS: Great, thank you very much.

Thank you very much to all of you for today.

It's been really, really good.

My takeaways are there is diagnosis for people, of course, and policies and so on but there's so much we can do as line managers to be kind to our people, to understand them really well and help them be at their absolute best before you even get into those areas.

It makes such a difference for all of our employees as much as anyone who is neurodivergent.

This brings our session to a close.

Thank you for joining us today.

Please look out for some follow-up resources on this topic, including our Bupa Academy resource, and some brilliant content from our partners at JAAQ.

I'm pleased to say that Health Horizons will be returning in June, where we'll discuss tech transformation in cancer care.

Thanks nor joining see you soon!